Yale, Princeton & Columbia for Master's? Good Idea???
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Anonymous
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Like many others, my kid dreamed of attending one of these three schools for undergrad but was rejected. She just started her freshman year at a very good state university but she is already thinking about what's next and she is seriously considering applying to Yale, Princeton and Columbia for a master's degree in international relations/public policy.
My question is whether the master's programs at these schools are considered as prestigious and are as respected as their undergrad programs? Would someone who attends Columbia SIPA or gets a Princeton MPA have the same cachet as a Princeton or Yale undergrad alum? Or, as I am writing this I realize that the real question is this - can getting a master's from Yale make up for not getting a Yale BA? I think my kid just wants a second shot but I am wondering whether it is the same and whether it is even worth it. |
Anonymous
| Tell her to hold off and revisit this idea in a couple of years |
Anonymous
| Yes, they are prestigious for master’s programs too. |
Anonymous
Um, no, don't think so. Or rather it depends on the graduate program. Is Yale Law as prestigious as Yale undergrad, yes, definitely. But is Princeton MPA or Columbia SIPA as well regarded as the undergrad programs, don't think so and this was OP's question. |
Anonymous
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Yes, they're prestigious for graduate schools, and yes their student bodies are composed of people with a wide variety of undergrad degrees. So you don't need a T25 undergrad or anything like it to get into SIPA or SPIA or JFK or SAIS etc.
However as someone with IR graduate degrees who works in this field, I would strongly advise working for a few years before going to one of these programs.It's a million times more useful for her career if she's been out in the workforce before investing a lot of time and money in an MA. And work experience will help with financial aid or fellowships. I'm a full pay parent for my undergrad but I wouldn't pay full freight for one of these degrees. She should apply widely and shop around and think strategically about how the degree is going to get her to the next level. Also for IR I would look carefully at some of the UK schools - Cambridge, Kings, etc - which have 1yr programs. No she won't learn as much in a 1yr program vs. a 2yr US program, but it's a cheaper, faster way to get the credential, which for most jobs is really all an IR MA provides. And the UK schools have some cachet (even if the academics amongst us recognize it's not as rigorous for an MA.) Final point: your kid doesn't have anything to "make up for" by not going to Yale. Sure there are some advantages to an elite undergrad degree, but they are quickly and vastly outweighed by a billion other factors that will shape her life and her career. I'll acknowledge that there are a lot of Ivy degrees at the tippy top of the foreign policy establishment today, but at every level of every USG/industry/academic establishment related to IR, you'll find every variety of educational background. |
Anonymous
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I’m a SIPA grad, it was a great experience. I learned a lot useful info and also made great connections. It opened a lot of doors, many I run into professionally like that I went to Columbia, nobody asks where I went for undergrad.
“Undergrad is more prestigious” is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Hillary Clinton is a current instructor at SIPA, tell me which connection you’re making in the freshman dorm that’s better than that for government/international. |
Anonymous
| I think this is really about assuaging her feeling that she has lost out on some experience she wanted, right? So I wouldn’t worry about the specific programs, I would just say, sure, you might go there for grad school, and change the subject. It’s likely that in four years she will have moved on and this won’t bother her in the same way. |
Anonymous
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Btw Columbia takes lots of transfers undergrad.
Nope public policy schools don’t have same cache Law and med yes |
Anonymous
| Depends a lot on the programs and whether you have to pay $$ or not |
Anonymous
| Your whole framing is off. She doesn't need a master's degree to "make up for" her undergrad school. She should focus on exploring her interests, making connections with professors, and then deciding in a couple years what post college plans make sense. But don't feed into her sense that her current school isn't good enough. |
Anonymous
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International Relations is a terminal graduate-only program, like law or medicine, so grad school matters more than undergrad (and it's a good candidate for graduating undergrad early to get there).
Terminal Masters degrees are diploma mills in subjects like science and humanities where undergrad and PhD are meaningful, and people get masters just to check a box for higher salary at (usually government) work. |
Anonymous
Merit scholarships are not common in masters degree programs. Most masters degree programs are used as cash cows for the department to help fund the department's PhD programs. No, a masters degree from Harvard, Yale, or Columbia is not as prestigious as earning a BA or BS degree from the same institution. Should be obvious as entry is typically much easier. Nevertheless, some masters degree programs are well respected. Plus, a masters degree in IR gives the individual added credibility in the field and separates one from the pack of BA holders when applying for certain jobs in the field. Here is a guide to the 50 best BA & 50 best masters degree programs in International Relations: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/20/top-fifty-schools-international-relations-foreign-policy/ |
Anonymous
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CORRECTION: The linked site shows the "top 25 programs, NOT the "top 50 programs" for each degree level (Phd, Masters, & BA) in IR & foreign policy.
Surprisingly, Oxford & Cambridge are not anywhere near the top for BA and masters degree programs. |
Anonymous
Answer to first bolded question: No, but some MA degrees are well respected in their field of specialty. Answer to second bolded question: No, but will be prestigious to a layperson. |
Anonymous
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Continuing: The thread title poses a different question: Whether earning a Master's Degree from Yale, Princeton, or Columbia is worthwhile ?
The answer varies by one's situation and varies by subject matter. Imagine a student who attends a large public university honor's college, enters with second year standing due to AP credits, attends on a full-tuition scholarship, and graduates college in just 3 years. Spending an additional year or so in a masters degree program at Princeton , Yale, Harvard, Stanford, or some other fancy institution can dress up the state school undergraduate degree and impress future employers while allowing the student to mature further before entering the workforce full time. LSE (London School of Economics) offers several popular master's degree programs as do Cambridge & Oxford which allow students a study abroad experience that has it's own value. (Research suggests that the UK is home to the use of master's degree programs as cash cows to support their PhD programs.) Again, depends upon the individual's situation and upon the particular program of study. |