Yale, Princeton & Columbia for Master's? Good Idea???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:International Relations is a terminal graduate-only program, like law or medicine, so grad school matters more than undergrad (and it's a good candidate for graduating undergrad early to get there).

Terminal Masters degrees are diploma mills in subjects like science and humanities where undergrad and PhD are meaningful, and people get masters just to check a box for higher salary at (usually government) work.

Almost every sentence in the above post is incorrect.

A master's degree in IR is NOT a terminal degree; a PhD in IR is a terminal degree.

Terminal masters degree programs are typically not "diploma Mills", but the writer of the post claiming so does not understand the meaning of a "terminal degree". (An MFA--masters in fine arts--is an example of a masters terminal degree.)

[Anonymous]

One poster wrote a lengthy post suggesting that it is better to get work experience before pursuing an MA in IR. Good idea, but how many with just BA degrees get IR/foreign affairs positions ? Those who do usually have degrees from elite undergraduate institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like many others, my kid dreamed of attending one of these three schools for undergrad but was rejected. She just started her freshman year at a very good state university but she is already thinking about what's next and she is seriously considering applying to Yale, Princeton and Columbia for a master's degree in international relations/public policy.

My question is whether the master's programs at these schools are considered as prestigious and are as respected as their undergrad programs? Would someone who attends Columbia SIPA or gets a Princeton MPA have the same cachet as a Princeton or Yale undergrad alum? Or, as I am writing this I realize that the real question is this - can getting a master's from Yale make up for not getting a Yale BA?

I think my kid just wants a second shot but I am wondering whether it is the same and whether it is even worth it.

For her major and career, Georgetown and Hopkins SAIS would work better as she'll get to network in DC and many opportunities come that way. Who's who of her field are here.

[Anonymous]

Top Master's Programs for Policy Career in International Relations
1.Georgetown University
2.Harvard University
3.Johns Hopkins University
4.Princeton University
5.Columbia University
6.Tufts University
7.George Washington University
8.American University
9.London School of Economics
10.University of Chicago
11.Stanford University
12.University of Oxford
13.Yale University
14.University of Denver
15.University of California—San Diego

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top Master's Programs for Policy Career in International Relations
1.Georgetown University
2.Harvard University
3.Johns Hopkins University
4.Princeton University
5.Columbia University
6.Tufts University
7.George Washington University
8.American University
9.London School of Economics
10.University of Chicago
11.Stanford University
12.University of Oxford
13.Yale University
14.University of Denver
15.University of California—San Diego

The top 6 schools should be separated from the rest as the top 6 masters programs are all outstanding and in a category above the rest. Nevertheless, a full tuition scholarship versus full pay may have a significant impact upon one's decision as to which school to attend for a masters degree in IR/foreign policy.

[Anonymous]

Graduate school is very different from undergrad, much more of a "this is my job" feel. So the campus experience is entirely different as well. I got a masters at Stanford and it helped me quite a bit with my job path afterward but I don't really feel like I "went to Stanford" and know virtually nothing about what it is like to be a college student there. Agree with above posters - she should lean in to the college experience she's having, if she's interested in policy/IR find internships and work after college for a few years, and then go to the best graduate program she can for her interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:International Relations is a terminal graduate-only program, like law or medicine, so grad school matters more than undergrad (and it's a good candidate for graduating undergrad early to get there).

Terminal Masters degrees are diploma mills in subjects like science and humanities where undergrad and PhD are meaningful, and people get masters just to check a box for higher salary at (usually government) work.

Almost every sentence in the above post is incorrect.

A master's degree in IR is NOT a terminal degree; a PhD in IR is a terminal degree.

Terminal masters degree programs are typically not "diploma Mills", but the writer of the post claiming so does not understand the meaning of a "terminal degree". (An MFA--masters in fine arts--is an example of a masters terminal degree.)

+1 and your first sentence made me laugh

[Anonymous]

OP, to answer your question - the master's programs from these schools are not considered as prestigious. As someone said, just look at the acceptance rates BUT, more importantly, it feels like your kid wants to use the master's program to make up for not getting into and experiencing the undergrad life and that is a bad, bad idea.

Can't speak about Columbia, but I got my master's from Yale (forestry) and have colleagues who have gotten their master's from Princeton and Harvard Kennedy. Let me tell you that grad school has nothing to do with undergrad, definitely not at Yale and I am sure at other places. As soon as you step on campus, you feel that Yale College and the undergrads are truly the center and heart of the place. They have their residential college system and have access to all the grad school resources. The whole university is really their playground. As a grad student, you are really in your own bubble, very separate from the undergrad experience. I can relate to the Stanford poster above who said that they didn't really feel like they went to Stanford. Well, I really didn't feel like I went to Yale. So my point is that as a master's student, your daughter will not have access to essential aspects of the undergrad experience which creates that bond between the college alums. It really is a completely different thing.

I also wanted to mention that from my experience a lot of people go for the ivy master's because they think that it will give them access to the WHOLE university alumni network since they have the name on their resume. Based on my experience and that of people I know, it really doesn't work that way. As a master's student at any one of these schools, you have access only to the alumni network from your grad program, definitely not undergrad. I can't tell you how many people I know from my Yale/Princeton/Harvard master programs who have had the following exchange:

A: I went to Yale/Princeton/Harvard.
B: Oh, me too. I was Branford '06/Lowell '06. Which college/house were you in?
A: Oh, I did my master's at HYP, so....(awkward silence)

I hope this really illustrates my point OP - the master's degree is not a substitute for having missed out on undergrad. I think your daughter should either make peace with where she is and make the best of it or look at transferring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Continuing: The thread title poses a different question: Whether earning a Master's Degree from Yale, Princeton, or Columbia is worthwhile ?

The answer varies by one's situation and varies by subject matter.

Imagine a student who attends a large public university honor's college, enters with second year standing due to AP credits, attends on a full-tuition scholarship, and graduates college in just 3 years. Spending an additional year or so in a masters degree program at Princeton , Yale, Harvard, Stanford, or some other fancy institution can dress up the state school undergraduate degree and impress future employers while allowing the student to mature further before entering the workforce full time.

LSE (London School of Economics) offers several popular master's degree programs as do Cambridge & Oxford which allow students a study abroad experience that has it's own value. (Research suggests that the UK is home to the use of master's degree programs as cash cows to support their PhD programs.)

Again, depends upon the individual's situation and upon the particular program of study.

+100

For any students disappointed that they were not admitted to these top flight universities for Undergrad: Masters programs at these places are a lot easier to be admitted into. A chance to learn from some very well known profs and to dress up an undergrad degree rom less prestigious places (if you so desire).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, to answer your question - the master's programs from these schools are not considered as prestigious. As someone said, just look at the acceptance rates BUT, more importantly, it feels like your kid wants to use the master's program to make up for not getting into and experiencing the undergrad life and that is a bad, bad idea.

Can't speak about Columbia, but I got my master's from Yale (forestry) and have colleagues who have gotten their master's from Princeton and Harvard Kennedy. Let me tell you that grad school has nothing to do with undergrad, definitely not at Yale and I am sure at other places. As soon as you step on campus, you feel that Yale College and the undergrads are truly the center and heart of the place. They have their residential college system and have access to all the grad school resources. The whole university is really their playground. As a grad student, you are really in your own bubble, very separate from the undergrad experience. I can relate to the Stanford poster above who said that they didn't really feel like they went to Stanford. Well, I really didn't feel like I went to Yale. So my point is that as a master's student, your daughter will not have access to essential aspects of the undergrad experience which creates that bond between the college alums. It really is a completely different thing.

I also wanted to mention that from my experience a lot of people go for the ivy master's because they think that it will give them access to the WHOLE university alumni network since they have the name on their resume. Based on my experience and that of people I know, it really doesn't work that way. As a master's student at any one of these schools, you have access only to the alumni network from your grad program, definitely not undergrad. I can't tell you how many people I know from my Yale/Princeton/Harvard master programs who have had the following exchange:

A: I went to Yale/Princeton/Harvard.
B: Oh, me too. I was Branford '06/Lowell '06. Which college/house were you in?
A: Oh, I did my master's at HYP, so....(awkward silence)

I hope this really illustrates my point OP - the master's degree is not a substitute for having missed out on undergrad. I think your daughter should either make peace with where she is and make the best of it or look at transferring.

I echo this 100%, although I don't equate acceptance rates with a school's prestige (i.e., UChicago was a very prestigious school despite high acceptance rates when I was in college). My DC just started at Yale and I can see that the entire university seems to be centered around the Yale college kids. Having gotten a law degree from a top grad program and my BA from Columbia, I can also say that being an undergrad vs a grad student are such vastly different experiences. Yes, it would be a nice additional credential but she needs to realize that getting the master's will not be a substitute for going there for college. One benefit of getting the degree for her would be access to university-wide alumni functions and membership in alumni clubs.

[Anonymous]

A masters degree from Princeton or Yale certainly pads the education portion of the resume. Columbia just says I went to a diploma mill.

Love the school you are at, do well, you will be successful. At this point their are only three ways to the 1%, found the next Google or Apple, marriage, or win the lottery when it is over a billion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A masters degree from Princeton or Yale certainly pads the education portion of the resume. Columbia just says I went to a diploma mill.

Love the school you are at, do well, you will be successful. At this point their are only three ways to the 1%, found the next Google or Apple, marriage, or win the lottery when it is over a billion.

This poster sounds nuts. Please ignore.

[Anonymous]

I'm an MPA grad of Princeton with two other Ivy degrees. I find the idea that grad school is less prestigious laughable, especially for Princeton's SPIA. SPIA offers generous support to its MPA students, most of whom graduate without debt. Admissions rates are not quite 3.6% but they are under 10%. It's almost impossible to get into SPIA without some kind of achievement or track record in the policy world.

Cf. SPIA to KSG. About 65-70 students a year vs. 500. KSG is a degree factory.

SAIS and Georgetown have little prestige in policy circles; PP is completely off base there. Yes, there are a lot of them in DC but not a lot of solidarity and networking support. Also, how many senior policy people do you know who hail from SAIS or Georgetown? The prestigious power jobs are held by Princeton/Harvard grads.

[Anonymous]

She is absolutely pursuing this for the wrong reason!!

She should do her best in undergrad. Figure out what her career goals are. And pursue a grad degree if necessary to achieve those goals . And then apply to the schools best for that degree. If she will not go too far into debt doing that.


She sounds hopelessly immature and insecure, TBH.

Hopefully that will change over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an MPA grad of Princeton with two other Ivy degrees. I find the idea that grad school is less prestigious laughable, especially for Princeton's SPIA. SPIA offers generous support to its MPA students, most of whom graduate without debt. Admissions rates are not quite 3.6% but they are under 10%. It's almost impossible to get into SPIA without some kind of achievement or track record in the policy world.

Cf. SPIA to KSG. About 65-70 students a year vs. 500. KSG is a degree factory.

SAIS and Georgetown have little prestige in policy circles; PP is completely off base there. Yes, there are a lot of them in DC but not a lot of solidarity and networking support. Also, how many senior policy people do you know who hail from SAIS or Georgetown? The prestigious power jobs are held by Princeton/Harvard grads.

Absolutely false. I'm a foreign affairs professional in Washington and SAIS by far here is the powerhouse for IR policy. An MPA -- masters of public administration, which includes domestic policy -- and a masters in IR are very different. In foreign affairs, SAIS, Georgetown, Harvard KSG, SIPA, and Fletcher are the leading schools. Princeton does not really rate.

In any case, at the very top of the foreign policy elite, most seem to have law degrees and/or were Rhodes.