Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

Overly qualified students are rejected every year. This happens because there are more qualified students than there are spots in these programs.

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't see much evidence that Asian kids flooded into "under-represented" middle schools like Whitman and Holmes this past year to "game" the new process.

It seems more likely to me that Asian families will just anchor in the top pyramids so they can hedge their bets (still have their kids apply to TJ, but rest assured that the alternative is Langley/McLean/Oakton/Chantilly/Woodson). And, as TJ becomes seen primarily as an alternative to lower-performing high schools, fewer of their kids will apply, just like Asian families in MoCo send their kids to Wootton with only some considering the Blair magnet.

Correct. Asian will stay in top school zones.

Some will have a small house in a lower ranked area and a larger house in the top zone.

Seems so overkill for high school. TJ is just a high school in the end. No one cares if you went to TJ later in life and college outcomes aren’t really better because it’s so competitive. If you read their confessional page, cheating is rampant and kids are totally unhappy. It’s crazy to me that folks are this desperate for TJ. Get a life.

TJ is soooo shiny.

This thread is intended for people interested in TJ. This is not a place to bash TJ as that point is going to fall on deaf ears. What is your purpose except maybe as someone embittered that TJ is unattainable?

I’m not bashing TJ. I’m bashing the parents who have been plotting their child’s path for TJ admissions since 2nd grade because they are obsessed with the prestige.

Why would you bash parents who want their kids to be successful? You seem to be obsessed with perpetuating a particular stereotype of a TJ applicant in the past in order to justify a new process that, as this thread indicates, has been anything but smooth. You've offered next to nothing to suggest that the new process is better at identifying students who may have an actual interest in, or aptitude for, STEM.

I'm bashing parents fostering an unhealthy, toxic environment for our kids.

You could always raise your kids as you see fit, and stop interfering with how other parents raise theirs.

It reeks of privilege for people like you to assert that other parents are somehow fostering an "unhealthy, toxic environment" for your kids. It's like you think you're the ones who should always decide the rules and the appropriate cultural norms.

Hmm. I wonder why teen suicides are out of control. Don’t get me wrong, I blame the sports parents, too. It’s all too much! I feel horrible for these kids who have been robbed of their childhood and expected to plan for a career (or to be an Olympian, get a scholarship, etc) from early childhood. It’s so messed up.

You could just as readily ascribe blame to FCPS officials for keeping schools closed so long, with the resultant isolation, lack of social interaction with peers, and loss of learning. That seems to have much more of an impact on students' mental health than parents encouraging their kids to participate in a Science Olympiad or to apply to TJ.

But, again, if you think it's up to FCPS to counter parents who "rob kids of their childhood," then the logical inference is that you should be advocating for the elimination of the STEM magnet at TJ, and not tinkering with the admissions process to admit more kids who may not be up to the school's challenges.

See, if is all very obvious. The white parents have a playbook which kept them on top. And which they think is the right thing to do. The Asians have a different playbook that they saw. Now that the Asian playbook is winning, whites want to say it is a bad toxi playbook. For a while, whites were embarassed that a minority was doing well. And grudgingly let it go. Then the envy got too much and they started saying you are no longer a minority - let's use the URM weapon to bash them. And here we are. Whatever argument you have - there is a counter. You Asians are just privileged, overworking, cheating, unidimensina, toxic people who need to be replaced. Never mind what your background/income levels are. This is a moment in time to vilify you. There is an absolute problem with the black community which needs to be addressed, but we just have some immigrant kids with motivated patents from Africa and South America being accidental winners here. All power to them. No real impact in areas where there should be. Of course as long as the end result is less Asians. whites are heaving a sigh of temporary relief. There!

Nope.

Whites DGAF. When we looked at the application data on an earlier thread, only 50% of eligible white kids even bothered to apply compared to 90%+ black and Asian kids. White families aren’t “envious” at all.

The community looked at how this valuable resource was being utilized and it was monopolized by a small group of wealthy middle schools. And there were embarrassingly few URMs or ED kids. 0.6% ED in 2024.

Maybe it’s white guilt for building such an unfair system. But it’s certainly not “envy”. You are totally off base.

I disagree. I'm white, and for the most part, white people love the prestige. They just don't want to put in the work like Asian kids do. In this forum alone, there have been numerous threads with parents complaining that their white kids are behind the Asian kids, despite their white kids' superior "natural aptitude." White people want to disincentivize anyone getting rewarded for working harder than they're willing to work. Even in this thread, there are suggestions that the Asian work ethic is toxic, the kids are suffering due to the high expectations, and Asians are doing things wrong because no one is supposed to work that hard in America.

The TJ reform is all about taking away any and all incentives for Asian kids to dominate in academics. If Asian kids are knocked down a few pegs or stop trying so hard, it flows that white kids will look better in comparison. White kids weren't especially interested in TJ because it required too much work for too little gain. If TJ gets watered down and no longer has so many strong Asian students at the top of the class, white kids will flock back.

I 100% disagree (at least for me-I concede that there are probably some white folks who feel as you express). I don’t mind hard work and I expect my kids to work very hard. I hate the aggressive and formulaic approach and I guess I do fear it becomes the norm. I hate the grade grubbing and cheating and all that it leads to (the obsession with test scores, number of APs and GPAs). I also mourn the loss of individuality and creativity. I understand that not all Asian families fit these stereotypes and I definitely knows white families who take similar approaches, so I’m going to say I hate the approach that is the stereotype of an Asian approach no matter what race the parent is. I think it’s destructive and takes the joy out of learning. I’ve worked with people raised under this approach and have found them to be rote and non-creative. Many are in careers they did not choose and hate. I want so much more for my kids than some false idea of prestige and a grind life. You all have a great time at TJ. I suspect it will be the high point of some of your kids’ careers. (Seriously, I saw TJ on the resume of someone in their 30’s. I laughed. We ended up hiring the candidate and they were ok, not great, not terrible.)

If you perceive the "stereotypical Asian" to be aggressive, formulaic, grade grubbing, cheating, non-individual, non-creative, rote, and dissatisfied with their career path, then I am 100% certain that the issue isn't Asians. It's that you're racist. I understand that you'll get defensive and insist that you're somehow not racist, but if you were capable of normal levels of introspection, you'd realize that you're quite racist.

Perhaps you are correct and I think about that a lot because I truly do not want to be racist. I would venture that most people on this thread are racist: the white people think the Asian people are formulaic, the Asians think the white folks are lazy and dumb and many folks (white and Asian?) seem to think the URM are underrepresented at TJ because they simply don’t want to do the work and that poverty and the like doesn’t matter. We should all look at our biases, I 100% agree.

I will say, I think the culture at TJ is toxic. I think white kids grade grub and cheat, too. It’s a shame because it is meant to be a place for kids who like STEM to learn but it has become a hyper competitive nightmare, as has AAP. People push and scheme to get their 8 year olds into AAP, which let’s be honest, is not that special. Most of the other kids in the grade could do the AAP work if they had the opportunity. Yet these kids are taught from third grade on that they are somehow better than everyone else and they are expected to achieve great things. It creates a weird sense of arrogance, combined with fear of not living up to the expectations. My kid hated AAP and was so grateful to get out, not because she hates learning but because of the atmosphere. Math, science and everything fun turned into winning competitions (AMC, Math Counts, Science Olympiad, etc). What could be amazing is totally polluted with an emphasis on getting perfect grades and winning instead of learning and exploring.

Racist? Probably. I think we all are racist in our own way. I will work on being introspective about that, but I ask you to take an honest look at the TJ culture and tell me honestly whether you think it’s healthy and conducive to higher learning and creative thought.

Anonymous wrote:Race at the Top: white and Asian Americans and the push for equity in education
Natasha Warikoo, the author of a new book on suburban schools and the competition for elite university spots, discusses the lessons she learned
https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/04/race-at-the-top-white-asian-americans-education-equity

Asian and white residents of towns like Woodcrest should look beyond their own children’s needs and attend to the opportunities afforded to children beyond the town’s boundaries. They should support the building of more mixed-income housing in their neighborhoods, the expansion of busing programs designed to bring children in urban and suburban schools together at school, and social policies designed to increase educational and economic equity. They should support increased opportunities for Black and Latinx children in particular, given that these groups have been historically excluded from the American dream.


I argue that we need to think of college admissions less as an individualist meritocracy that selects the very “best”, “most deserving” young people to study at elite colleges, and instead as an organizational practice that attempts to fulfill institutional mission, one of which is to develop diverse leaders for tomorrow.

Then, I’m hoping to study the impact of admissions changes to selective public schools around the country such as Thomas Jefferson High School in Virginia and Boston Latin School. These changes were facilitated by the disruptions of the Covid pandemic – one small opportunity to expand opportunity – which forced districts to rethink exam-based admissions, and how they might rethink their selection to broaden access, especially for Black and Latinx youth historically underrepresented at the schools

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Anonymous wrote:The toxic exists in everybody’s mind, if there is any of them.
You can enjoy study without considering winning competition.
Some other kids enjoys competition and decide to work hard. There is nothing wrong with it. No toxic.
Toxic comes when you think those diligent kids takes your opportunities away. Toxic is in your mind.

Go ahead and tell yourself that, but one day you may be honest with yourself.

PP was right that there’s a lot of projection. Resentful parents call other parents/kids “toxic” because they want their own kids to be on top without working as hard.

Or they fear for our (collective) children’s mental health. I’m perfectly fine with my kid not being at the top because they are older now and I’ve seen the toll this sort of approach has on many kids. My own kid has gotten therapy and is in a much better place (although admittedly, we recently got a crisis phone call about a B+ in a college class). Take whatever approach you want, but do it at your peril. My kid is out of high school now and not competing with yours so it does not impact me except in the sense of watching the collective mental health decline.

When you think you've projected as much as possible, be sure and project some more. It can't be your parenting or your kid's particular mental attitude that is at issue; it has to be a "collective" issue that can only be addressed by discriminating against Asian families while invoking the "greater good."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The toxic exists in everybody’s mind, if there is any of them.
You can enjoy study without considering winning competition.
Some other kids enjoys competition and decide to work hard. There is nothing wrong with it. No toxic.
Toxic comes when you think those diligent kids takes your opportunities away. Toxic is in your mind.

Go ahead and tell yourself that, but one day you may be honest with yourself.

PP was right that there’s a lot of projection. Resentful parents call other parents/kids “toxic” because they want their own kids to be on top without working as hard.

Or they fear for our (collective) children’s mental health. I’m perfectly fine with my kid not being at the top because they are older now and I’ve seen the toll this sort of approach has on many kids. My own kid has gotten therapy and is in a much better place (although admittedly, we recently got a crisis phone call about a B+ in a college class). Take whatever approach you want, but do it at your peril. My kid is out of high school now and not competing with yours so it does not impact me except in the sense of watching the collective mental health decline.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The toxic exists in everybody’s mind, if there is any of them.
You can enjoy study without considering winning competition.
Some other kids enjoys competition and decide to work hard. There is nothing wrong with it. No toxic.
Toxic comes when you think those diligent kids takes your opportunities away. Toxic is in your mind.

Go ahead and tell yourself that, but one day you may be honest with yourself.

PP was right that there’s a lot of projection. Resentful parents call other parents/kids “toxic” because they want their own kids to be on top without working as hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The toxic exists in everybody’s mind, if there is any of them.
You can enjoy study without considering winning competition.
Some other kids enjoys competition and decide to work hard. There is nothing wrong with it. No toxic.
Toxic comes when you think those diligent kids takes your opportunities away. Toxic is in your mind.

Go ahead and tell yourself that, but one day you may be honest with yourself.

Anonymous wrote:The toxic exists in everybody’s mind, if there is any of them.
You can enjoy study without considering winning competition.
Some other kids enjoys competition and decide to work hard. There is nothing wrong with it. No toxic.
Toxic comes when you think those diligent kids takes your opportunities away. Toxic is in your mind.

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see much evidence that Asian kids flooded into "under-represented" middle schools like Whitman and Holmes this past year to "game" the new process.

It seems more likely to me that Asian families will just anchor in the top pyramids so they can hedge their bets (still have their kids apply to TJ, but rest assured that the alternative is Langley/McLean/Oakton/Chantilly/Woodson). And, as TJ becomes seen primarily as an alternative to lower-performing high schools, fewer of their kids will apply, just like Asian families in MoCo send their kids to Wootton with only some considering the Blair magnet.

Correct. Asian will stay in top school zones.

Some will have a small house in a lower ranked area and a larger house in the top zone.

Seems so overkill for high school. TJ is just a high school in the end. No one cares if you went to TJ later in life and college outcomes aren’t really better because it’s so competitive. If you read their confessional page, cheating is rampant and kids are totally unhappy. It’s crazy to me that folks are this desperate for TJ. Get a life.

TJ is soooo shiny.

This thread is intended for people interested in TJ. This is not a place to bash TJ as that point is going to fall on deaf ears. What is your purpose except maybe as someone embittered that TJ is unattainable?

I’m not bashing TJ. I’m bashing the parents who have been plotting their child’s path for TJ admissions since 2nd grade because they are obsessed with the prestige.

Why would you bash parents who want their kids to be successful? You seem to be obsessed with perpetuating a particular stereotype of a TJ applicant in the past in order to justify a new process that, as this thread indicates, has been anything but smooth. You've offered next to nothing to suggest that the new process is better at identifying students who may have an actual interest in, or aptitude for, STEM.

I'm bashing parents fostering an unhealthy, toxic environment for our kids.

You could always raise your kids as you see fit, and stop interfering with how other parents raise theirs.

It reeks of privilege for people like you to assert that other parents are somehow fostering an "unhealthy, toxic environment" for your kids. It's like you think you're the ones who should always decide the rules and the appropriate cultural norms.

Hmm. I wonder why teen suicides are out of control. Don’t get me wrong, I blame the sports parents, too. It’s all too much! I feel horrible for these kids who have been robbed of their childhood and expected to plan for a career (or to be an Olympian, get a scholarship, etc) from early childhood. It’s so messed up.

You could just as readily ascribe blame to FCPS officials for keeping schools closed so long, with the resultant isolation, lack of social interaction with peers, and loss of learning. That seems to have much more of an impact on students' mental health than parents encouraging their kids to participate in a Science Olympiad or to apply to TJ.

But, again, if you think it's up to FCPS to counter parents who "rob kids of their childhood," then the logical inference is that you should be advocating for the elimination of the STEM magnet at TJ, and not tinkering with the admissions process to admit more kids who may not be up to the school's challenges.

See, if is all very obvious. The white parents have a playbook which kept them on top. And which they think is the right thing to do. The Asians have a different playbook that they saw. Now that the Asian playbook is winning, whites want to say it is a bad toxi playbook. For a while, whites were embarassed that a minority was doing well. And grudgingly let it go. Then the envy got too much and they started saying you are no longer a minority - let's use the URM weapon to bash them. And here we are. Whatever argument you have - there is a counter. You Asians are just privileged, overworking, cheating, unidimensina, toxic people who need to be replaced. Never mind what your background/income levels are. This is a moment in time to vilify you. There is an absolute problem with the black community which needs to be addressed, but we just have some immigrant kids with motivated patents from Africa and South America being accidental winners here. All power to them. No real impact in areas where there should be. Of course as long as the end result is less Asians. whites are heaving a sigh of temporary relief. There!

Nope.

Whites DGAF. When we looked at the application data on an earlier thread, only 50% of eligible white kids even bothered to apply compared to 90%+ black and Asian kids. White families aren’t “envious” at all.

The community looked at how this valuable resource was being utilized and it was monopolized by a small group of wealthy middle schools. And there were embarrassingly few URMs or ED kids. 0.6% ED in 2024.

Maybe it’s white guilt for building such an unfair system. But it’s certainly not “envy”. You are totally off base.

90%+ of eligible blacks applied?

What is the acceptance rate for black?

We looked at 2010/11 since that was the most recent data we had on eligibility (course enrollment).

Admit rates:
Black 3%
Hispanic 6%
White 12%
Asian 20%

Details:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/615/1039775.page

Thank you for the information. I guess the board is trying to improve two of these numbers by accepting less qualified (but still within acceptance standards) students. I'm ok with that. However, for this year, some overly qualified top students who would thrive at TJ got rejected.