Anonymous wrote:

Classic example of https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

I'm not exactly sure of your point, but what I assume it to be means to mean you don't understand the link you posted.

"Argument From Ignorance" example illustrates a very common Theist argument: "I don't know how the universe began so it must be a god".

Open to having you explain and I will change my assumption.

Again, the “I don’t care if you believe in God and practice your religion as long as it doesn’t affect me” line by atheists is a complete lie. They actively seek out a religion forum. They are shown here openly attacking those they claim have a right to believe as they wish.

I know atheists who do not care what other believe. They have dignity and wouldn’t be caught dead in a religion forum.
They have better things to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

I doubt most people would define southern evangelic churches as mainstream. Anglican is almost the definition of mainstream. or Presbyterian.

Southern Baptists??? You asked how people learn about atheism, but discount Baptists? And Catholics? What kind of bubble do you live in where these aren’t
everyday Christians?

+1

People are so confused and arrogant here. They not only deny God, which is their right, but pretend they have to power to include or exclude churches and their memberships based on their opinion of their beliefs and worship styles.

Let’s rename this forum Bizzaro World. It truly is.

Hahahah! If you want to rename "religion" into "Bizarro World" I don't think you'll get a lot of objections from atheists.

So why do you frequent a religion forum?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

I doubt most people would define southern evangelic churches as mainstream. Anglican is almost the definition of mainstream. or Presbyterian.

Southern Baptists??? You asked how people learn about atheism, but discount Baptists? And Catholics? What kind of bubble do you live in where these aren’t
everyday Christians?

+1

People are so confused and arrogant here. They not only deny God, which is their right, but pretend they have to power to include or exclude churches and their memberships based on their opinion of their beliefs and worship styles.

Let’s rename this forum Bizzaro World. It truly is.

Hahahah! If you want to rename "religion" into "Bizarro World" I don't think you'll get a lot of objections from atheists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

I doubt most people would define southern evangelic churches as mainstream. Anglican is almost the definition of mainstream. or Presbyterian.

Southern Baptists??? You asked how people learn about atheism, but discount Baptists? And Catholics? What kind of bubble do you live in where these aren’t
everyday Christians?

+1

People are so confused and arrogant here. They not only deny God, which is their right, but pretend they have to power to include or exclude churches and their memberships based on their opinion of their beliefs and worship styles.

Let’s rename this forum Bizzaro World. It truly is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

agnostic claims neither a belief nor disbelief

athiest claims there is no god.

No, that is not true.

"Theist" means belief in a god or gods.

Atheist means "A-Theist" or, the opposite of theist. Without a belief in a god or gods.

"Gnostic" from the Greek "Gnosis" or "to know". "Agnostic" means "don't know".

So you can have no belief in god and you can also not know if there is one or not. They are not mutually exclusive.

I know the term has been misunderstood and misused, but if you meet or talk to any Atheists, you will find very few who claim "there is factually no god". They may say they find it highly unlikely, hence the lack of belief, but that is the position most take.

Even Richard Dawkins admits he can't prove there is no god:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Classic example of https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

LOL, if you want to bring rules of philosophy into this discussion, then the one making the positive claim has the burden of proof, and the default position is skepticism, which is to reject the claim until the proof has been shown. Given that there is no proof that God exists, the default position is that there is no God. The atheists then has no need to prove anything, much less suffer from argument from ignorance. Classical argument from ignorance is also most usually applied to instances where individuals don't know proven facts or evidence that other people do know - this does not apply in the case of the existence of God since there are no proven facts or evidence supporting the claim that God exists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

I doubt most people would define southern evangelic churches as mainstream. Anglican is almost the definition of mainstream. or Presbyterian.

Southern Baptists??? You asked how people learn about atheism, but discount Baptists? And Catholics? What kind of bubble do you live in where these aren’t
everyday Christians?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My initial encounters with atheists were all with people who were angry with organized religion or the God they claimed not to believe in. As an adult, I met some people who were cultural atheists since birth and they weren’t angry, just smarmy and self-righteous. I keep waiting to meet in person the happy and tolerant-to-believers atheists that I read about online. I live in one of most diverse zip codes in a very well-educated county and am a hard core science fiction fan married to a STEM-doctorate so the problem isn’t that I live in a religious bubble. I’ve never preached at anyone whether they were a believer of a different faith or a non-believer so I’m not driving them away with my viewpoints. In fact, many of the atheists I met expressed shock that I’m religious.

I am guessing most such people self identify as agnostics, not atheists. Affirmatively denying theism, as opposed to just "there is no evidence, and maybe there can't be any evidence" seems to involve either A. A really intense interest in technical philosophy - which few have B. Being part of a larger ideology that affirms atheism, such as Marxism - but Marxism is pretty much moribound. C. Personal issues - often with represssive parents, etc.

I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

As a closeted atheist, I am tolerant of religious beliefs so I see no point in alienating people by being hardcore. I only have problems with certain aspects of organized religion which I won't get into here. I enjoy visiting churches and appreciating the architecture and find historical religious figures fascinating. I love relics, stained glass, and hymns. If you need faith to make it through this life, as long as you aren't hurting others or pushing your agenda, so be it.

I respect your choice, but wish you chose not to be closeted. THere's nothing "hardcore"' in acknowledging that you don't believe in god and as long as people keep quiet about it, it does not allow others to see that atheists are ordinary people who simply don't believe in a deity.

I see your point and I believe that it is now becoming on the whole a more ordinary stance, but my elderly parents would be heartbroken. I think it's the more moral choice not to cause them harm. As my sibling concurs, the simple act of attending church with them a few times is a meaningless thing for me, but the world to them.

I agree -- no need to tell your parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is an adaptation of a question I asked in the “What do Atheists Believe?” thread. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/729573.page It seems better suited for its own discussion:


So I'm asking – do your questions about atheists and atheism come from personal speculation? from church? from your family? From books, TV, the movies? something else?

Read your question: you are asking if the questions about atheism coming from church? from family?

Questions are coming from person's mind. If questions coming from books, then the author of the book is the author of the questions. I am not completely sure what exactly are you asking.

I don't ask people about their atheism believes. I grew up in Soviet Union, there were no church and no religion, and frankly, no God. I grew up among atheists. My family were and most of them remain atheists.

Thanks for clarifying that you are from a county where there was no discussion of religion. That explains a lot. The question was aimed at Americans

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My initial encounters with atheists were all with people who were angry with organized religion or the God they claimed not to believe in. As an adult, I met some people who were cultural atheists since birth and they weren’t angry, just smarmy and self-righteous. I keep waiting to meet in person the happy and tolerant-to-believers atheists that I read about online. I live in one of most diverse zip codes in a very well-educated county and am a hard core science fiction fan married to a STEM-doctorate so the problem isn’t that I live in a religious bubble. I’ve never preached at anyone whether they were a believer of a different faith or a non-believer so I’m not driving them away with my viewpoints. In fact, many of the atheists I met expressed shock that I’m religious.

I am guessing most such people self identify as agnostics, not atheists. Affirmatively denying theism, as opposed to just "there is no evidence, and maybe there can't be any evidence" seems to involve either A. A really intense interest in technical philosophy - which few have B. Being part of a larger ideology that affirms atheism, such as Marxism - but Marxism is pretty much moribound. C. Personal issues - often with represssive parents, etc.

I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

As a closeted atheist, I am tolerant of religious beliefs so I see no point in alienating people by being hardcore. I only have problems with certain aspects of organized religion which I won't get into here. I enjoy visiting churches and appreciating the architecture and find historical religious figures fascinating. I love relics, stained glass, and hymns. If you need faith to make it through this life, as long as you aren't hurting others or pushing your agenda, so be it.

I respect your choice, but wish you chose not to be closeted. THere's nothing "hardcore"' in acknowledging that you don't believe in god and as long as people keep quiet about it, it does not allow others to see that atheists are ordinary people who simply don't believe in a deity.

It’s odd you care about stranger’s choices so much. I am not a nosy person; nor an uncaring person. Yet, how other people live and think really isn’t my business. How people “think” about others doesn’t affect me very much. You seem deeply invested in the thought process of people. You might want to consider that being so invested is harmful to your mental health.

Being thoughtful is one thing; obsessive is another.

talk about obsessive!^^

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My initial encounters with atheists were all with people who were angry with organized religion or the God they claimed not to believe in. As an adult, I met some people who were cultural atheists since birth and they weren’t angry, just smarmy and self-righteous. I keep waiting to meet in person the happy and tolerant-to-believers atheists that I read about online. I live in one of most diverse zip codes in a very well-educated county and am a hard core science fiction fan married to a STEM-doctorate so the problem isn’t that I live in a religious bubble. I’ve never preached at anyone whether they were a believer of a different faith or a non-believer so I’m not driving them away with my viewpoints. In fact, many of the atheists I met expressed shock that I’m religious.

I am guessing most such people self identify as agnostics, not atheists. Affirmatively denying theism, as opposed to just "there is no evidence, and maybe there can't be any evidence" seems to involve either A. A really intense interest in technical philosophy - which few have B. Being part of a larger ideology that affirms atheism, such as Marxism - but Marxism is pretty much moribound. C. Personal issues - often with represssive parents, etc.

I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

As a closeted atheist, I am tolerant of religious beliefs so I see no point in alienating people by being hardcore. I only have problems with certain aspects of organized religion which I won't get into here. I enjoy visiting churches and appreciating the architecture and find historical religious figures fascinating. I love relics, stained glass, and hymns. If you need faith to make it through this life, as long as you aren't hurting others or pushing your agenda, so be it.

I respect your choice, but wish you chose not to be closeted. THere's nothing "hardcore"' in acknowledging that you don't believe in god and as long as people keep quiet about it, it does not allow others to see that atheists are ordinary people who simply don't believe in a deity.

I see your point and I believe that it is now becoming on the whole a more ordinary stance, but my elderly parents would be heartbroken. I think it's the more moral choice not to cause them harm. As my sibling concurs, the simple act of attending church with them a few times is a meaningless thing for me, but the world to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

agnostic claims neither a belief nor disbelief

athiest claims there is no god.

No, that is not true.

"Theist" means belief in a god or gods.

Atheist means "A-Theist" or, the opposite of theist. Without a belief in a god or gods.

"Gnostic" from the Greek "Gnosis" or "to know". "Agnostic" means "don't know".

So you can have no belief in god and you can also not know if there is one or not. They are not mutually exclusive.

I know the term has been misunderstood and misused, but if you meet or talk to any Atheists, you will find very few who claim "there is factually no god". They may say they find it highly unlikely, hence the lack of belief, but that is the position most take.

Even Richard Dawkins admits he can't prove there is no god:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Classic example of https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Anonymous wrote:Here is an adaptation of a question I asked in the “What do Atheists Believe?” thread. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/729573.page It seems better suited for its own discussion:


So I'm asking – do your questions about atheists and atheism come from personal speculation? from church? from your family? From books, TV, the movies? something else?

Read your question: you are asking if the questions about atheism coming from church? from family?

Questions are coming from person's mind. If questions coming from books, then the author of the book is the author of the questions. I am not completely sure what exactly are you asking.

I don't ask people about their atheism believes. I grew up in Soviet Union, there were no church and no religion, and frankly, no God. I grew up among atheists. My family were and most of them remain atheists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

agnostic claims neither a belief nor disbelief

athiest claims there is no god.

No, that is not true.

"Theist" means belief in a god or gods.

Atheist means "A-Theist" or, the opposite of theist. Without a belief in a god or gods.

"Gnostic" from the Greek "Gnosis" or "to know". "Agnostic" means "don't know".

So you can have no belief in god and you can also not know if there is one or not. They are not mutually exclusive.

I know the term has been misunderstood and misused, but if you meet or talk to any Atheists, you will find very few who claim "there is factually no god". They may say they find it highly unlikely, hence the lack of belief, but that is the position most take.

Even Richard Dawkins admits he can't prove there is no god:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Actually ....

The etymological root for the word atheism originated before the 5th century BCE from the ancient Greek ????? (atheos), meaning "without god(s)"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My initial encounters with atheists were all with people who were angry with organized religion or the God they claimed not to believe in. As an adult, I met some people who were cultural atheists since birth and they weren’t angry, just smarmy and self-righteous. I keep waiting to meet in person the happy and tolerant-to-believers atheists that I read about online. I live in one of most diverse zip codes in a very well-educated county and am a hard core science fiction fan married to a STEM-doctorate so the problem isn’t that I live in a religious bubble. I’ve never preached at anyone whether they were a believer of a different faith or a non-believer so I’m not driving them away with my viewpoints. In fact, many of the atheists I met expressed shock that I’m religious.

I am guessing most such people self identify as agnostics, not atheists. Affirmatively denying theism, as opposed to just "there is no evidence, and maybe there can't be any evidence" seems to involve either A. A really intense interest in technical philosophy - which few have B. Being part of a larger ideology that affirms atheism, such as Marxism - but Marxism is pretty much moribound. C. Personal issues - often with represssive parents, etc.

I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

As a closeted atheist, I am tolerant of religious beliefs so I see no point in alienating people by being hardcore. I only have problems with certain aspects of organized religion which I won't get into here. I enjoy visiting churches and appreciating the architecture and find historical religious figures fascinating. I love relics, stained glass, and hymns. If you need faith to make it through this life, as long as you aren't hurting others or pushing your agenda, so be it.

I respect your choice, but wish you chose not to be closeted. THere's nothing "hardcore"' in acknowledging that you don't believe in god and as long as people keep quiet about it, it does not allow others to see that atheists are ordinary people who simply don't believe in a deity.

It’s odd you care about stranger’s choices so much. I am not a nosy person; nor an uncaring person. Yet, how other people live and think really isn’t my business. How people “think” about others doesn’t affect me very much. You seem deeply invested in the thought process of people. You might want to consider that being so invested is harmful to your mental health.

Being thoughtful is one thing; obsessive is another.