Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's OK - most of the people here have never cared about a high school football program

Oh, and the list of distinguished alumni includes not only NFL hall of famers, Major League ballplayers, Olympic gold medalists, Wimbledon tennis champions, but accomplished doctors, lawyers, Federal judges, Academy award nominated screenwriters, directors and actors, bestselling authors and a former Governor of Maryland. Most people in American couldn't care less about your "STA."

This site is "DC Urbanmoms." So who cares what most people in America think. People in DC, MD and VA know what that is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is BS. Sorry. Look at the college list for St. Albans or Choate.

And this would tell you what exactly about the subject at hand?

That they still have more than 30% of their class matriculating to Ivy+ schools.

That 30% is only 24 kids, which is in fact fewer than the number of Ivy+ matriculations in the same year from several of the local public schools.

You have to compare percentages, not numbers. Do the local publics have more than 30% of the class going to Ivy+, and close to 50% going to top 20 schools? I think not.

I disagree. To address the topic of this thread, that selective colleges are "taking fewer kids from private," you have to compare numbers. The matriculating class at a university is about number of seats, and that is the topic here. They took 24 from Private A (St. A) and 80 from public B (TJ). In other words, fewer from private, as the title of the thread says. Not only did Public B send more kids, but that also means the school had a larger cohort of top students for your kid to hob nob with - more than 3x as many. The percentage is totally irrelevant to this issue. Would you say homeschool C sends more kids to Ivy than anyone else because 50% of the class of 2 went to ivy? Of course not.

Of course the public schools don't and can't sent 50% of 500 students from all walks of life to top universities. It is ridiculous to attempt such a comparison.

So the entire TJ senior class should attend Cornell? Good to know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is BS. Sorry. Look at the college list for St. Albans or Choate.

And this would tell you what exactly about the subject at hand?

That they still have more than 30% of their class matriculating to Ivy+ schools.

That 30% is only 24 kids, which is in fact fewer than the number of Ivy+ matriculations in the same year from several of the local public schools.

You have to compare percentages, not numbers. Do the local publics have more than 30% of the class going to Ivy+, and close to 50% going to top 20 schools? I think not.

+1.000

I got reamed for laughing about TJ recently but if you look at the facts on the ground for TJ

It's less than 10% going to IVY plus

and less than 33% going to a school better than UVA aka Top 20 or above lolz

but what public high school in America does better? Specifics please. (This came up once before and there was indeed one school in the mid-west that did as well or better - one school).

You laughed at, and ignored, the explanation about how many public school kids don't qualify for FA and the Ivies don't give financial aid. So they end up going to non-Ivies that give generous aid packages.

That's an awesome win for them, but apparently for you it doesn't count because their parents couldn't afford full-pay at an Ivy. At Blair just a few years ago, Columbia alone accepted 14 kids but only 6 went (including my full-pay kid). The rest took large or full scholarships at historically black colleges, Georgetown, and elsewhere.

Maybe you're not too dumb to understand that you shouldn't compare apples and oranges. Maybe you're just a snob living in a financial bubble and you have no clue that not everybody can afford $70k for an ivy.

I'm going to answer both of these posts at the same time

First reply

The acceptance rate at elite schools is between 5-10% the acceptance rate at TJ is between 5-10%. Therefore there is no benefit for TJ

Even worst TJ supposedly takes the best of the best. You mean to tell me in Fairfax County and surrounding area(s) with over 1 million people. The best of the best are still only getting acceptance rates that are the average lol. PATHETIC

Second Reply

I don't know about the other elites but I know Harvard gives full financial aid to middle class incomes. So your argument fails. try again

Just a few threads below this one is a thread asking about good schools for engineers. Nobody suggested a single Ivy.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/667567.page

Correction: after I posted this, somebody went on and suggested Cornell (check the time stamps).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is BS. Sorry. Look at the college list for St. Albans or Choate.

And this would tell you what exactly about the subject at hand?

That they still have more than 30% of their class matriculating to Ivy+ schools.

That 30% is only 24 kids, which is in fact fewer than the number of Ivy+ matriculations in the same year from several of the local public schools.

You have to compare percentages, not numbers. Do the local publics have more than 30% of the class going to Ivy+, and close to 50% going to top 20 schools? I think not.

+1.000

I got reamed for laughing about TJ recently but if you look at the facts on the ground for TJ

It's less than 10% going to IVY plus

and less than 33% going to a school better than UVA aka Top 20 or above lolz

but what public high school in America does better? Specifics please. (This came up once before and there was indeed one school in the mid-west that did as well or better - one school).

You laughed at, and ignored, the explanation about how many public school kids don't qualify for FA and the Ivies don't give financial aid. So they end up going to non-Ivies that give generous aid packages.

That's an awesome win for them, but apparently for you it doesn't count because their parents couldn't afford full-pay at an Ivy. At Blair just a few years ago, Columbia alone accepted 14 kids but only 6 went (including my full-pay kid). The rest took large or full scholarships at historically black colleges, Georgetown, and elsewhere.

Maybe you're not too dumb to understand that you shouldn't compare apples and oranges. Maybe you're just a snob living in a financial bubble and you have no clue that not everybody can afford $70k for an ivy.

I'm going to answer both of these posts at the same time

First reply

The acceptance rate at elite schools is between 5-10% the acceptance rate at TJ is between 5-10%. Therefore there is no benefit for TJ

Even worst TJ supposedly takes the best of the best. You mean to tell me in Fairfax County and surrounding area(s) with over 1 million people. The best of the best are still only getting acceptance rates that are the average lol. PATHETIC

Second Reply

I don't know about the other elites but I know Harvard gives full financial aid to middle class incomes. So your argument fails. try again

Just a few threads below this one is a thread asking about good schools for engineers. Nobody suggested a single Ivy.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/667567.page

Anonymous wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, in case there is a newbie parent of a 9th grader reading this thread:

YES - ALL of the ivy league schools give financial aid. In many cases, very generous financial aid. (As do all of the top schools, although certainly to greater and lesser extent)

Please don't let the ignorant PP up thread dissuade your child from pursuing admissions at a competitive college.

3:02 and school's out. Could I suggest you come back in a few years after you've started the college application process and combed through College Confidential for a few months? From your defense of tony private schools I'm going to surmise that you'll never focus on the difference between financial aid and merit aid. However, these are real issues to many kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, in case there is a newbie parent of a 9th grader reading this thread:

YES - ALL of the ivy league schools give financial aid. In many cases, very generous financial aid. (As do all of the top schools, although certainly to greater and lesser extent)

Please don't let the ignorant PP up thread dissuade your child from pursuing admissions at a competitive college.

?? You say ignorant....

Of course the Ivies all give FINANCIAL aid. What no Ivy gives is MERIT aid, which is different from financial aid. Merit aid, FYI, is an award of a few thousand, or even tens of thousands, based solely on your high school academic record. Merit aid doesn't require your parents to fill out long financial aid forms and submit their tax return, unlike financial aid which does require these things.

For some very low-income families, an Ivy may offer more generous financial aid than your in-state public. Unfortunately, not all Ivies have the deep pockets of Harvard, which someone mentioned upthread. For many families in the $100-200,000 annual income range, financial aid simply isn't available unless you have extenuating circumstances like 2+ kids in college at the same time (or unless we're talking about Harvard). For these families, merit aid may be necessary to attend--but again, the Ivies don't give out MERIT aid (or athletic scholarships, although they'll give athletes free laundry services, deals on meals, and the like).

Hope that's clear.

Reposting with correction to clarify that the Ivy isn't going to offer more generous financial AND merit aid. Because the Ivies don't offer merit aid. But the financial aid package could still be more generous than your state school. IFF you qualify for FA at the Ivy, which is going to be hard for many families earning in the six figures. I hope you grasp that paying $70k annually is well-nigh impossible for a family earning $160,000 (higher than even Harvard's FA limit) and that merit aid at a non-Ivy is going to look very appealing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:according to my consultant (who used to do admissions at a top 3). She said it's bc enrollment management analyzes metrics (she wouldn't say specifically but said it's more than just grades) but professors and TAs are involved and so are resident advisors and that's part of the reason it's getting harder and harder to get in. She also said that going to a non-brand public is better than going to a big name public.

Professors - yes
TAs - no
RAs - no

Some schools let students interview applicants, but it's more to make the applicant feel wanted and appreciated.

The other metrics would be things like whether you opened their emails, attended their info sessions in town, and so on. You think I'm joking, but I'm not. Colleges are very protective of their yields (yield = percent of kids who matriculate after being offered a spot) because yield figures into all the national rankings. It's not hard for the IT people to pull together these other types of metrics. Colleges want to know you want them before they accept you.

There are other things, like how colleges reqeifht your transcript according to their proprietary, internal weighting systems.

If your consultant can't explain these things, I'd wonder. If you didn't actually ask for clarification, then give her another chance.

Anonymous wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, in case there is a newbie parent of a 9th grader reading this thread:

YES - ALL of the ivy league schools give financial aid. In many cases, very generous financial aid. (As do all of the top schools, although certainly to greater and lesser extent)

Please don't let the ignorant PP up thread dissuade your child from pursuing admissions at a competitive college.

?? You say ignorant....

Of course the Ivies all give FINANCIAL aid. What no Ivy gives is MERIT aid, which is different from financial aid. Merit aid, FYI, is an award of a few thousand, or even tens of thousands, based solely on your high school academic record. Merit aid doesn't require your parents to fill out long financial aid forms and submit their tax return, unlike financial aid which does require these things.

For some very low-income families, an Ivy may offer more generous financial AND merit aid than your in-state public. Unfortunately, not all Ivies have the deep pockets of Harvard, which someone mentioned upthread. For many families in the $100-200,000 annual income range, financial aid simply isn't available unless you have extenuating circumstances like 2+ kids in college at the same time (or unless we're talking about Harvard). For these families, merit aid may be necessary to attend--but again, the Ivies don't give out MERIT aid (or athletic scholarships, although they'll give athletes free laundry services, deals on meals, and the like).

Hope that's clear.

Anonymous wrote:according to my consultant (who used to do admissions at a top 3). She said it's bc enrollment management analyzes metrics (she wouldn't say specifically but said it's more than just grades) but professors and TAs are involved and so are resident advisors and that's part of the reason it's getting harder and harder to get in. She also said that going to a non-brand public is better than going to a big name public.

Professors - yes
TAs - no
RAs - no

Some schools let students interview applicants, but it's more to make the applicant feel wanted and appreciated.

according to my consultant (who used to do admissions at a top 3)

Just curious. What EXACTLY did this person do in admission? I feel like a lot of these people were part time application reviewers and they love to play up their importance.

Just to be perfectly clear, in case there is a newbie parent of a 9th grader reading this thread:

YES - ALL of the ivy league schools give financial aid. In many cases, very generous financial aid. (As do all of the top schools, although certainly to greater and lesser extent)

Please don't let the ignorant PP up thread dissuade your child from pursuing admissions at a competitive college.

Anonymous wrote:Rather than looking at the colleges attend by students from elite private high schools, you need to know what type of high school students enrolled in a specific college attended. For example Colgate publishes this figure on his admissions profile page (42% private) but I think its fairly unique. (https://www.colgate.edu/admission-financial-aid/first-year-class-profile). Dept of Ed data does not report the type of high school students attended by college so its hard to get systematic data over time.

All that being said I think its not enough to know if a student went public or private school bc all types of high schools (public, private, charter) have a few ones with a really great reputation and a lot more with mediocre reps (for every Choate there are 10 random parochial schools that are no better than local high school in terms of academic rigor etc). For example a college could appear less elitist if it admitted fewer students from midlevel parochial schools in favor of students from wealthy public high schools but they likely end up with more students from 1% families. This could happen w/o doing anything different with respect to students from Choate, Andover and the DC "Big X" schools.

I totally agree that a kid from Whitman is more likely to get a second look from top colleges than a kid from Ballou, and this isn't good. That's part of the reason APs exist--so the kid from Ballou can show colleges that she completely absorbed the material despite attending being a school known for less rigor. But APs don't solve the problem and the situation is far from ideal.

The only point that I and someone else were making is that you simple can't compare the very top privates like STA and Choate college admissions to some nebulous "all public schools" or even to TJ. Not that that poster is reading anybody's explanations about why TJ kids don't want Ivies because of (a) wanting Carnegie Mellon instead, and (b) needing merit aid which the Ivies don't give out.

Rather than looking at the colleges attend by students from elite private high schools, you need to know what type of high school students enrolled in a specific college attended. For example Colgate publishes this figure on his admissions profile page (42% private) but I think its fairly unique. (https://www.colgate.edu/admission-financial-aid/first-year-class-profile). Dept of Ed data does not report the type of high school students attended by college so its hard to get systematic data over time.

All that being said I think its not enough to know if a student went public or private school bc all types of high schools (public, private, charter) have a few ones with a really great reputation and a lot more with mediocre reps (for every Choate there are 10 random parochial schools that are no better than local high school in terms of academic rigor etc). For example a college could appear less elitist if it admitted fewer students from midlevel parochial schools in favor of students from wealthy public high schools but they likely end up with more students from 1% families. This could happen w/o doing anything different with respect to students from Choate, Andover and the DC "Big X" schools.

Anonymous wrote:And you think this is just?

Of course not. PP and I are just pushing back against the moron who thinks that STA and Choate have better exmissions results for no reason other than that they're private schools.