How much juggling and stress MCPS parents have to go through to provide for their kids appropriate education! Would not it be nice if the required GT services were available in all the home school in MCPS, so that parents did not have to think whether their kids will thrive academically in MCPS public school?

Plan to show up at the GT forum on March 22 at Magruder HS. See thread http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/221871.page for details.

Post your comments and questions at GTA site http://www.gtamc.org/2012-gt-forum before hand.

12:31 here. I think math is a lot easier for acceleration. DC also just moved up math classes and it was never a problem.

It also has to do with the personality of the kid. My DC was literally insulted by the stuff he had to do in Spanish -- "the gingerbread man in Spanish is still the gingerbread man, mom!" -- but that's kind of his personality, LOL!

My kid in french immersion at Sligo Creek took math at 2 years above grade level and then went on to the TPMS magnet. In 5th grade DC had to walk over with some other accelerated kids to the middle school next door - I wonder if this proximity to a middle school is why Sligo can offer math acceleration and some other schools can't.

Also, DC was reading chapter books in kindergarten, and we found the combination of reading advanced english-language books outside school plus the new challenge of immersion worked well for DC.

We know some families who left immersion for the HGCs, and other families who found the immersion program provided, if not acceleration, then a different type of learning. We're in the latter category. We don't see acceleration as an end to itself, instead it's the depth and range, including other exposure to other languages, that appeals to us.

I also had a kid in full immersion and he was not well served. If you think your child will be several years above grade level, proceed with caution, particularly if the acceleration need will be in the reading/language arts area. My kid was reading about five years above GL and it was so hard to get him materials that were the right level! If he was interested in reading it, he didn't always have the foreign language ability to do so, and his decoding ability in the foreign language far surpassed his actual vocabulary. It was very tough and we pulled him at the end of third grade for an HGC, which was the right move.

Also, immersion teachers create their own materials so if your child needs MS-level work in ES, the teacher probably won't have it and it's a lot to ask a teacher to create more curriculum materials just for your kid. And the ES library probably won't have more advanced materials in the foreign language, either.

This is NOT to say there aren't plenty of smart kids in immersion! But if you are looking for immersion to provide language-based challenge and enrichment, this might not be the right choice.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with 11:00..I saw it in our school which has partial immersion. Those kids are excluded from high math because it is not taught in Chinese. I guess that issue will fade since accelerated math seems to be fading.

This may depend on the particular immersion program. We've had a positive experience with a Spanish immersion program. We were worried about our daughter entering K at her home school for fear she would be bored but fortunately she was accepted into Spanish immersion. Learning in another language is in itself a challenge, but in addition to that our daughter's school provides her with appropriate level reading materials and she attends math class with a grade level ahead of her (she's now in 2nd grade but attends 3rd grade math). Sometimes we do wish she had even more accelerated work, but we've been satisfied thus far with our overall program. I would note that you have to advocate for your child from the start in order to ensure the school differentiates appropriately. We started communicating with her K teacher at the beginning of the school year and conveyed information about her reading and math skills in order to ensure that she received appropriate work for her level.

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, she said that she was left on her own with separate books and assignments, with not a lot of thought put into them on the teacher's part. So they tried. Was it enough? You tell me: Do you think this is an acceptable way to handle GT students' needs in our school system? Because I don't.

The point is, the school billed itself as a catholic school, not as a GT program. So why are you criticizing a catholic school -- actually, you made a gratuitous swipe at all catholic schools -- for not being a GT program?

If you want to lobby for better GT programs in MoCo, be my guest. But don't try to twist totally unrelated issues into GT issues, by criticizing a catholic school for not being a GT school. It makes you look obsessed and misdirected.

By turning out ok I meant graduated from college with a double major and law school with honors --- for me, that's more than sufficient. And RE: Catholic schools - they don't label kids GT --- they just push everyone hard and use the old-school approach (which pushes responsibility and independent learning --- not a lot of hand-holding or individual attention--- sink or swim --- and those kids turn out just fine (meaning they typically go on to good colleges and grad schools). AHC was way more stressful academically than law school (I still have nightmares about the workload at AHC).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I was GT at a Catholic school as a kid and they obviously didn't have the resources to pull me out for special instruction for reading. As background: I was head and shoulders above my peers and the school urged my parents to have me skip a grade (they opted not to since I was the youngest in my class). For reading, I sometimes read with the highest reading group, but most of the time I was given different books and different assignments --- but the assignments were more open-ended (ie: not a lot of thought put into them on the teacher's part --- usually something like draft a summary and then one or two creative writing type questions). I worked solo as reading groups were going on around me. Not a big deal --- I turned out okay. Your GT kid will be fine. I think there's a great deal to be said about learning how to work independently (that's what you need to do once you hit HS, college and grad school -- there's no hand-holding).

Catholic schools are well-known for teaching to the middle.

You "turned out ok" is not a ringing endorsement for the way your school and teachers handled things. I never rode in a carseat, but I "turned out ok." I won't consider not putting my kids in carseats however.

GT kids have needs in the same way that struggling students do. It is unfair to GT kids to make them the sacrificial lambs for the benefit of their lower-functioning peers.

See, this is what annoys people about GT parents - the way you just blasted the PP for all the wrong reasons, all in aid of what looks like your own sense of entitlement.

Leaving aside your sideswipe of catholic schools in general, the catholic school example is totally irrelevant to your obvious agenda concerning public school gifted programs. In any case, you need to re-read her post, because she said the catholic school gave her separate books and assignments, so it's not like they didn't try. And I'm sure even you figured this out, but "I turned out OK" is more humility and flame-avoidance, and she never actually meant to say, "I do pretty well at my night job as a convenience store clerk."

Just to establish my own cred for you, my kids are both in MoCo magnets after both being in earlier MoCo magnets. But with friends like you on our side, we don't need enemies.

Actually, she said that she was left on her own with separate books and assignments, with not a lot of thought put into them on the teacher's part. So they tried. Was it enough? You tell me: Do you think this is an acceptable way to handle GT students' needs in our school system? Because I don't.

For those who haven't heard yet, Josh Starr is holding a forum at Magruder H.S. on March 22 at 7 p.m. Focus of the forum is GT.

If this issue concerns you, as it seems it does many commenting here, please come and advocate for the differentiated learning that GT students need.

Also, Maryland has new rules about gifted education. I, for one, want to know what that will mean for GT kids in MoCo.:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-schools-gifted-20120228,0,5691405.story

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I was GT at a Catholic school as a kid and they obviously didn't have the resources to pull me out for special instruction for reading. As background: I was head and shoulders above my peers and the school urged my parents to have me skip a grade (they opted not to since I was the youngest in my class). For reading, I sometimes read with the highest reading group, but most of the time I was given different books and different assignments --- but the assignments were more open-ended (ie: not a lot of thought put into them on the teacher's part --- usually something like draft a summary and then one or two creative writing type questions). I worked solo as reading groups were going on around me. Not a big deal --- I turned out okay. Your GT kid will be fine. I think there's a great deal to be said about learning how to work independently (that's what you need to do once you hit HS, college and grad school -- there's no hand-holding).

Catholic schools are well-known for teaching to the middle.

You "turned out ok" is not a ringing endorsement for the way your school and teachers handled things. I never rode in a carseat, but I "turned out ok." I won't consider not putting my kids in carseats however.

GT kids have needs in the same way that struggling students do. It is unfair to GT kids to make them the sacrificial lambs for the benefit of their lower-functioning peers.

See, this is what annoys people about GT parents - the way you just blasted the PP for all the wrong reasons, all in aid of what looks like your own sense of entitlement.

Leaving aside your sideswipe of catholic schools in general, the catholic school example is totally irrelevant to your obvious agenda concerning public school gifted programs. In any case, you need to re-read her post, because she said the catholic school gave her separate books and assignments, so it's not like they didn't try. And I'm sure even you figured this out, but "I turned out OK" is more humility and flame-avoidance, and she never actually meant to say, "I do pretty well at my night job as a convenience store clerk."

Just to establish my own cred for you, my kids are both in MoCo magnets after both being in earlier MoCo magnets. But with friends like you on our side, we don't need enemies.

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I was GT at a Catholic school as a kid and they obviously didn't have the resources to pull me out for special instruction for reading. As background: I was head and shoulders above my peers and the school urged my parents to have me skip a grade (they opted not to since I was the youngest in my class). For reading, I sometimes read with the highest reading group, but most of the time I was given different books and different assignments --- but the assignments were more open-ended (ie: not a lot of thought put into them on the teacher's part --- usually something like draft a summary and then one or two creative writing type questions). I worked solo as reading groups were going on around me. Not a big deal --- I turned out okay. Your GT kid will be fine. I think there's a great deal to be said about learning how to work independently (that's what you need to do once you hit HS, college and grad school -- there's no hand-holding).

Catholic schools are well-known for teaching to the middle.

You "turned out ok" is not a ringing endorsement for the way your school and teachers handled things. I never rode in a carseat, but I "turned out ok." I won't consider not putting my kids in carseats however.

GT kids have needs in the same way that struggling students do. It is unfair to GT kids to make them the sacrificial lambs for the benefit of their lower-functioning peers.

FWIW, I was GT at a Catholic school as a kid and they obviously didn't have the resources to pull me out for special instruction for reading. As background: I was head and shoulders above my peers and the school urged my parents to have me skip a grade (they opted not to since I was the youngest in my class). For reading, I sometimes read with the highest reading group, but most of the time I was given different books and different assignments --- but the assignments were more open-ended (ie: not a lot of thought put into them on the teacher's part --- usually something like draft a summary and then one or two creative writing type questions). I worked solo as reading groups were going on around me. Not a big deal --- I turned out okay. Your GT kid will be fine. I think there's a great deal to be said about learning how to work independently (that's what you need to do once you hit HS, college and grad school -- there's no hand-holding).

Exactly what I'm worried about happening in our red zone school, PP at 11:17. how in the world is it considered ok by MCPS to fail the GT students in this way when it is very easy to help them appropriately by breaking them out for the instruction level those kids need? it makes me mad to think about it.

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is moving away from any kind of differentiation into classes. The idea, as PP says, is to differentiate within the classroom.

IMO this is a really bad move for kids who need higher level material, and extremely hard for a teacher to do effectively in classrooms where there are more than a couple of levels.

Piney Branch was doing in-class differentiation 8 years ago when DC was in the magnet. I can't imagine things getting worse! In DC's class there was a table of GT kids, several tables of kids in the middle, and a table of 3rd grade kids who couldn't read yet. The GT kids read the 90-page book in 1-2 classes and spent the rest of the unit reading their own books or drawing. The teacher spent most of her time reading to (don't get me started on teaching techniques, that's separate issue) the kids who couldn't read yet, because Piney Branch was on the ropes for the NCLB tests and getting these non-readers up to speed was the first priority.