Anonymous
Post 01/14/2014 12:34     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you can't afford it, then you can't afford it. Period. But can you giv us an example of the kind of trip it is? A resort? If so, could you scale it back and rent a cabin or beach house instead? Probably much cheaper. Could you alternate destinations so that one family hosts (at their home) or can at least drive instead of fly? Could you suggest that you all pass this year and instead start planning ahead for a trip in two years?

As a suggestion: you could probably find a large home to rent in a less popular area (ie: on the Chesapeake bay instead of Bethany or the outer banks) and save a ton of money.


It's not a resort trip. Usually it is either at my SIL's house (in CO) or my MIL's house (in CA). This will only be the second year that a rental house is involved. The $2-3k expense is for plane tickets and associated expenses (airport parking, food, baggage fees) -- we are a family of 6 so air travel alone adds up to a lot even if we don't have any major expenses once we get there.


No wonder you feel so poor. Four kids and 300K loans. I think you need to accept that at this stage of your life, you are poor. I would however graciously accept help from MIL and FIL for family vacation. I think their desire to see their son's family is genuine and once a year is really not that much. But admit that you cannot afford it and absolutely don't borrow money for vacation. From your other thread, it sounds like your in laws are nice people and don't do anything to embarrass you about this. Don't punish them by not seeing them because of your pride, which I think is a little misplaced.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2014 19:42     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
I'm the pp you quoted, and we are a family of six as well. If I were in your shoes, I would do the following:

1. Tell everyone that you can't afford the flights the year.
2. Offer to host at your home...whether its everyone at once, or a few at a time.
3. Tell folks you'll try to be able to join them in two years..but no promises.
4. If anyone offers to cover the flights as a gift, accept it.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2014 10:26     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:If you can't afford it, then you can't afford it. Period. But can you giv us an example of the kind of trip it is? A resort? If so, could you scale it back and rent a cabin or beach house instead? Probably much cheaper. Could you alternate destinations so that one family hosts (at their home) or can at least drive instead of fly? Could you suggest that you all pass this year and instead start planning ahead for a trip in two years?

As a suggestion: you could probably find a large home to rent in a less popular area (ie: on the Chesapeake bay instead of Bethany or the outer banks) and save a ton of money.


It's not a resort trip. Usually it is either at my SIL's house (in CO) or my MIL's house (in CA). This will only be the second year that a rental house is involved. The $2-3k expense is for plane tickets and associated expenses (airport parking, food, baggage fees) -- we are a family of 6 so air travel alone adds up to a lot even if we don't have any major expenses once we get there.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 23:47     Subject: Re:When no one else will admit they can't afford something
getting together with family is priceless, or at least worth $2K. My parents are getting up there so I booked a place at the beach this summer so all the grandkids can get together. Expensive? Yep. But maybe the last time I will get to spend time with them when they are still active enough to enjoy their grandkids.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 22:33     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I suppose I have a dissenting opinion. Clearly, seeing your family is important for your in-laws. It seems to be important for your husband as well. It is a pretty reasonable position. Kids grow and change tremendously in a year. In this particular case, I think FAMILY TRUMPS MONEY.

Now, you can be financially responsible about visiting. If you feel so uncomfortable about accepting help, or embarrassed to air your financial circumstances, then the onus is on you to find a way to make visiting happen WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT. Cut cable, stop eating out/ordering in, only shop at thrift stores, sell a car, etc.

YOU were the one who made the poor financial decisions earlier. Don't punish your in-laws for your mistakes. Find a way to save that money. Your choices are not just to accept a handout or go into debt. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sounds like you just don't want to find a way.


Oh, PP, if only it was that easy. We haven't had cable since 2010, we don't eat out, and although I don't have time to shop at thrift stores, we buy our kids' clothes very cheaply. We have a lot of student loan debt (over $300k) and that is why we are so poor. It's not something that can be undone or helped by trimming around the edges. And actually, my in-laws encouraged DH and cosigned all his loans. So, from that perspective, they aren't completely blameless.


PP here. That is a lot of debt! I can understand why this situation is stressful to you. With this new information, I largely agree with you: I think you should stick to your guns about visiting every second (or even third) year, with one important caveat. If your in-laws graciously offer financial assistance or compromises (traveling to you is awesome!), then you should do your absolute best to graciously accept their help.

If you, or your husband (who might have a better gauge on his family) suspect that the offers are starting to become grudging, or resentment is building, then nip the "help" in the bud and stand firm. You love seeing them, but you will have a great time visiting them in Summer 2015. In the meantime, there is a package in the mail with the kids' latest artwork, you are looking forward to Skyping, and please pass along our love to Aunt Fluffy.

Seeing extended family is important, but your immediate family comes first.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 13:20     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:I recently posted the following thread in Family Relationships: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/353702.page

So if you want the whole background, go read that. I'm going to try to make this as concise as possible for anyone who doesn't want to go read the OP on that thread. My DH's family (his parents, his sister and her family, and his brother and his family) places a high value on getting together once a year. Since none of us live close to each other, that involves air travel for some or all of us. While I also place a high value on spending time with family, our financial situation precludes us from travel for at least the next two years (and it won't be peachy keen after that, but I am willing to divert money that Suze Orman would say we should use for something else to do this family get together because it is so important to them). This has actually been a struggle for us for several years and the group dynamic around this makes it very difficult.

I know that we are in the most dire financial situation of the four households, but I'm not at all sure that anyone/everyone else can really afford to do this yearly trip either (depending on your definition of afford, I suppose). I think that the dynamic within the family is that you never admit you can't afford something, you just find a way to do it (i.e. go into debt) and worry about paying for it later. I spoke to my MIL the other day and she admitted to me that when my SIL (her daughter) was getting married, they were in a really perilous financial situation and instead of being upfront with her about their inability to pay for her wedding, they took out loans and just paid it off over the course of several years. I think that was a really stupid decision, but I think she was telling me that because she thinks that's how things should be done.
Do we have enough lines of credit in our names to charge $2-3k a year for this family gathering? Yes. Given the rest of our finances, would it be the most incredibly f-ing stupid decision ever to charge up those credit cards when we can't afford to pay them off? Yes. I guess I'm just looking for some validation from the hawks on the financial forum because my in-laws live in an alternate universe. We are doing the right thing by not charging a trip we can't afford, yes?


I would feel resentful that that money you would have to borrow is not going into your families vacation. Vacation with MIL is NOT the same thing (at least to me)
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 13:15     Subject: Re:When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look, no one wants to be "the poor relative" Don't force yourself.


this is not being the poor relative, it's living within what you can afford, and it is never ever shameful. when people don't want to admit that they cannot afford something, it's their problem and I pity them (especially if they go into debt to pretend they can afford). I would definitely not go into debt to keep up with them. OP should really teach her kids that having a financially responsible life and spend only what you can afford to spend is the honorable way to live a life (not to mention the smartest). she can see first hand the results of the education her husband had, I guess she does not want her kids to grow up and end up with such a lifelong burden around their neck


Yadda, yadda, yadda. The OP has made it pretty plain she feels she is in that role with her inlaws.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 12:22     Subject: Re:When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:Look, no one wants to be "the poor relative" Don't force yourself.


this is not being the poor relative, it's living within what you can afford, and it is never ever shameful. when people don't want to admit that they cannot afford something, it's their problem and I pity them (especially if they go into debt to pretend they can afford). I would definitely not go into debt to keep up with them. OP should really teach her kids that having a financially responsible life and spend only what you can afford to spend is the honorable way to live a life (not to mention the smartest). she can see first hand the results of the education her husband had, I guess she does not want her kids to grow up and end up with such a lifelong burden around their neck