Anonymous wrote:Dolezal fundamentally doesn’t understand the black American experience, although she wants to co-opt it. You can’t grow up and move through the world as a white person, and one day decide you “feel” black. Those of us who grew up with the black American cultural experience from birth understand that it is not something you can just put on like a costume. Her magical thinking about this shows the depths of her misunderstanding and entitlement as a white person.

This is the same argument against trans people.

Dolezal fundamentally doesn’t understand the black American experience, although she wants to co-opt it. You can’t grow up and move through the world as a white person, and one day decide you “feel” black. Those of us who grew up with the black American cultural experience from birth understand that it is not something you can just put on like a costume. Her magical thinking about this shows the depths of her misunderstanding and entitlement as a white person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question. What difference does it make if she identifies as Black? Is this not the same as females who identify as males? Males who identify as females?

It seems hypocritical to me as a society.

I do think it matters if she uses her fake race to her advantage, but of course it’s hypocritical. If people can be transgender, why not trans-race?
Also, this is what comes from so much focus on race and creating policies and hiring/admissions standards based on race, a trait no one chooses and is born with. Race is a continuum, and a social construct. People are people.

She was already privileged, claimed to be black to be even more privileged. Took a scholarship and a position meant for someone in need

That’s the strangest part. It sounds insane in this climate to claim she did this to claim a privilege but if you really take a moment to step back and look at it, you can’t help but conclude that yes, in this instance she was definitely co-opting another race specifically to exploit an opportunity and steal a spot in academia that was reserved only for a woman of color. In general, I do not generally think you can make a case for “black privilege” in America, but with “diversity hires” especially in academia right now it can be argued that yes, her ability to (aggressively) pass herself off as a “person of color” absolutely was her using her assumed identity as a privilege that gave her access to a space she had no right to occupy.

This woman seems nothing but exploitative to me.

Rachel Dolezal’s story seems different to me somehow. I have read about her circumstance and did wonder if she legitimately does have a claim the way that transgender people have a claim. When she consistently and persistently insiststed (and still does) that “I FEEL like a black woman.” And says that nothing about her identity resonates with whiteness or being white, I have to admit it sounds exactly the same to my ears as the argument made by those who identify as another gender. I’m a Cis woman so when a trans woman says “I identify as a woman because I feeeeel like a woman” I don’t even know what to say because I don’t know what “feeling” like a woman feels like?? I just AM a woman. And if I say “that’s ridiculous! You’re clearly a dude! I’M a woman!” I can’t figure how that’s not the same as the objection that people of color have toward Rachel Dolezal. I don’t know. I’m not saying I’m right thinking in this. I just don’t get how one is fine and the other nope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone just exposed another academic for doing this same thing -- this time at U of Wisconsin. Great read.

https://medium.com/@polite_keppel_dinosaur_57/cv-vitolo-haddad-another-academic-racial-fraud-c5c41fe32110

NP here.
This was an interesting article .

On a related note, could someone explain the concept of “allowing someone into their sacred space”? This has been mentioned repeatedly with respect to Krug and also in the situation above. As a white person, I can only assume but don’t really know for sure. It sounds important for Black people so I would like to understand this concept to be able to respect it.

I think what some minority people may not understand is that white people, in general, do not have a “sacred space”. Not defending her, but maybe Krug wanted to belong to a “sacred space” or part of something bigger. Many “white people” are all just grouped together, and as a result, there is no real culture or sense of belonging at all for them. Minority groups seem to stick together so to speak.

Minority person here, I understand that very well--I've always felt that white Americans are a mishmash and don't really have a strong sense of identity. (My MIL is a white European, and for that reason her son has that sense of identity, but most white Americans don't.) I think that's why really homogenous white affluent areas, like say North Arlington, always seem to have the most infighting and cattiness.

You and the PP make a very good point. We are Greek so our kids have a strong Greek identity. My daughter attends a very affluent school (we moved out of the DMV a few years ago) and her English class had an assignment to write about cultural experiences in their life similar to those in the book Nisei Daughter. The lone Hispanic girl in the class turned to my daughter and whispered, we're lucky, at least we have something to write about. What are the rest of them going to write about - ketchup?

Here it is again, this weird idea that Americanness itself is not a culture. White Americans who have no idea where their ancestors came from certainly DO have a culture, they (and others) just often don’t recognize certain practices as cultural because so much of the rest of the world has adopted them.

Random white Americans who move abroad pretty quickly catch on to this, though. From the space between you and the person ahead of you in line, to how often or when to smile at strangers or acquaintances, to more obvious practices like Halloween trick or treating — if you think these aren’t distinctly cultural practices, then you need to go live somewhere else for a while.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone just exposed another academic for doing this same thing -- this time at U of Wisconsin. Great read.

https://medium.com/@polite_keppel_dinosaur_57/cv-vitolo-haddad-another-academic-racial-fraud-c5c41fe32110

NP here.
This was an interesting article .

On a related note, could someone explain the concept of “allowing someone into their sacred space”? This has been mentioned repeatedly with respect to Krug and also in the situation above. As a white person, I can only assume but don’t really know for sure. It sounds important for Black people so I would like to understand this concept to be able to respect it.

Black person here. I think other minority ethic/cultural/religious groups (Latinx, Jewish, etc.) likely have similar experiences. If you're not part of any minority identity, it's hard to understand--but there are private shared experiences and a sense of kinship that you wouldn't expect a majority culture person to be privy to. It's a trust issue, to some extent.

Same reason why expats tend to hang out together when overseas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She doesn’t look black at all. She doesn’t even look mixed.

Don’t be ridiculous. Vanessa Williams has stunning blue eyes with very pale skin. You can be black and “look white” as it were.

Anyone can tell Vanessa Williams is part black. Jessica Krug doesn’t look black at all.

Yes, maybe because I'm another light-skinned, blue-eyed black woman, Williams looks obviously black to me. Both her parents are black, but from her Wiki, she's got almost half European DNA:

"Later in life, she participated in a DNA test with the following results: 23% from Ghana, 17% from the British Isles, 15% from Cameroon, 12% Finnish, 11% Southern European, 7% from Togo, 6% from Benin, 5% from Senegal, and 4% Portuguese.[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Williams

Krug doesn't look black to me at all, but I wouldn't challenge her too much if she told me she had some black ancestry because who lies about this (ha)? Although she does seem to overdo it a bit in the clips I've seen of her--that might make me a little skeptical.

Vanessa Williams part of the conversation about 10 pages ago. The problem isn’t what she looks like, the problem is the lies

This is Congressman butterfield:

He’s a black man. Both his parents were black. It shouldn’t be up to others to judge if people are black enough (or in krug’s case—not black at all). It would be great if people didn’t feel the compulsion to lie about who they are. In krug’s case, the many inconsistencies in where she came from should have been addressed a while ago.

His parents are both mixed race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She doesn’t look black at all. She doesn’t even look mixed.

Don’t be ridiculous. Vanessa Williams has stunning blue eyes with very pale skin. You can be black and “look white” as it were.

Anyone can tell Vanessa Williams is part black. Jessica Krug doesn’t look black at all.

Yes, maybe because I'm another light-skinned, blue-eyed black woman, Williams looks obviously black to me. Both her parents are black, but from her Wiki, she's got almost half European DNA:

"Later in life, she participated in a DNA test with the following results: 23% from Ghana, 17% from the British Isles, 15% from Cameroon, 12% Finnish, 11% Southern European, 7% from Togo, 6% from Benin, 5% from Senegal, and 4% Portuguese.[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Williams

Krug doesn't look black to me at all, but I wouldn't challenge her too much if she told me she had some black ancestry because who lies about this (ha)? Although she does seem to overdo it a bit in the clips I've seen of her--that might make me a little skeptical.

Vanessa Williams part of the conversation about 10 pages ago. The problem isn’t what she looks like, the problem is the lies

This is Congressman butterfield:

He’s a black man. Both his parents were black. It shouldn’t be up to others to judge if people are black enough (or in krug’s case—not black at all). It would be great if people didn’t feel the compulsion to lie about who they are. In krug’s case, the many inconsistencies in where she came from should have been addressed a while ago.

wrong thread. I think you meant to post here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/825/828844.page#18113178

I didn't care that much about the fact that she pretended to be Latina to land Alec Baldwin, who has an affinity for Latin women.

She took it WAY too far. "We had 30 of my relatives come up from Spain for the wedding" and naming her kids Spanish names is where I started to question her mental stability. And Instagram posts like this where she is really working that fake Spanish accent, at home, with Alec. Does he seriously not know that she is faking this accent?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_aeWnEjasE/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She doesn’t look black at all. She doesn’t even look mixed.

Don’t be ridiculous. Vanessa Williams has stunning blue eyes with very pale skin. You can be black and “look white” as it were.

Anyone can tell Vanessa Williams is part black. Jessica Krug doesn’t look black at all.

Yes, maybe because I'm another light-skinned, blue-eyed black woman, Williams looks obviously black to me. Both her parents are black, but from her Wiki, she's got almost half European DNA:

"Later in life, she participated in a DNA test with the following results: 23% from Ghana, 17% from the British Isles, 15% from Cameroon, 12% Finnish, 11% Southern European, 7% from Togo, 6% from Benin, 5% from Senegal, and 4% Portuguese.[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Williams

Krug doesn't look black to me at all, but I wouldn't challenge her too much if she told me she had some black ancestry because who lies about this (ha)? Although she does seem to overdo it a bit in the clips I've seen of her--that might make me a little skeptical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone just exposed another academic for doing this same thing -- this time at U of Wisconsin. Great read.

https://medium.com/@polite_keppel_dinosaur_57/cv-vitolo-haddad-another-academic-racial-fraud-c5c41fe32110

NP here.
This was an interesting article .

On a related note, could someone explain the concept of “allowing someone into their sacred space”? This has been mentioned repeatedly with respect to Krug and also in the situation above. As a white person, I can only assume but don’t really know for sure. It sounds important for Black people so I would like to understand this concept to be able to respect it.

I think what some minority people may not understand is that white people, in general, do not have a “sacred space”. Not defending her, but maybe Krug wanted to belong to a “sacred space” or part of something bigger. Many “white people” are all just grouped together, and as a result, there is no real culture or sense of belonging at all for them. Minority groups seem to stick together so to speak.

Minority person here, I understand that very well--I've always felt that white Americans are a mishmash and don't really have a strong sense of identity. (My MIL is a white European, and for that reason her son has that sense of identity, but most white Americans don't.) I think that's why really homogenous white affluent areas, like say North Arlington, always seem to have the most infighting and cattiness.

You and the PP make a very good point. We are Greek so our kids have a strong Greek identity. My daughter attends a very affluent school (we moved out of the DMV a few years ago) and her English class had an assignment to write about cultural experiences in their life similar to those in the book Nisei Daughter. The lone Hispanic girl in the class turned to my daughter and whispered, we're lucky, at least we have something to write about. What are the rest of them going to write about - ketchup?

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it... who would want to identify as black if not needed? It is not like they have treatment or peers and alike. That is the whole reason for the BLM movement.

Because Black is seen as being cooler.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She doesn’t look black at all. She doesn’t even look mixed.

Don’t be ridiculous. Vanessa Williams has stunning blue eyes with very pale skin. You can be black and “look white” as it were.

Anyone can tell Vanessa Williams is part black. Jessica Krug doesn’t look black at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone just exposed another academic for doing this same thing -- this time at U of Wisconsin. Great read.

https://medium.com/@polite_keppel_dinosaur_57/cv-vitolo-haddad-another-academic-racial-fraud-c5c41fe32110

NP here.
This was an interesting article .

On a related note, could someone explain the concept of “allowing someone into their sacred space”? This has been mentioned repeatedly with respect to Krug and also in the situation above. As a white person, I can only assume but don’t really know for sure. It sounds important for Black people so I would like to understand this concept to be able to respect it.

I think what some minority people may not understand is that white people, in general, do not have a “sacred space”. Not defending her, but maybe Krug wanted to belong to a “sacred space” or part of something bigger. Many “white people” are all just grouped together, and as a result, there is no real culture or sense of belonging at all for them. Minority groups seem to stick together so to speak.

I tend to think that she was mostly responding to an incentive structure to further her career and make money and that asking why she did it is like asking why Madoff told the lies that he was a genius investor.

But you do have a point about belonging, though she could have leaned into her Jewish heritage if that was all it was.

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it's a thread from an alleged former friend of Krug. She talks about the evolution of Krug's identity. What's wild is that Krug sometimes had words with black academics that she felt weren't woke enough.

https://twitter.com/kinkyintellect/status/1301620913818030093?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1301620913818030093%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnewsone.com%2F4008491%2Fjessica-krug-colleagues-explain-how-she-fooled-them%2F

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone just exposed another academic for doing this same thing -- this time at U of Wisconsin. Great read.

https://medium.com/@polite_keppel_dinosaur_57/cv-vitolo-haddad-another-academic-racial-fraud-c5c41fe32110

NP here.
This was an interesting article .

On a related note, could someone explain the concept of “allowing someone into their sacred space”? This has been mentioned repeatedly with respect to Krug and also in the situation above. As a white person, I can only assume but don’t really know for sure. It sounds important for Black people so I would like to understand this concept to be able to respect it.

I think what some minority people may not understand is that white people, in general, do not have a “sacred space”. Not defending her, but maybe Krug wanted to belong to a “sacred space” or part of something bigger. Many “white people” are all just grouped together, and as a result, there is no real culture or sense of belonging at all for them. Minority groups seem to stick together so to speak.

Minority person here, I understand that very well--I've always felt that white Americans are a mishmash and don't really have a strong sense of identity. (My MIL is a white European, and for that reason her son has that sense of identity, but most white Americans don't.) I think that's why really homogenous white affluent areas, like say North Arlington, always seem to have the most infighting and cattiness.