Anonymous wrote:I’d like to hear Dems explain why they caved on a two-year delay of the ACA tax on Cadillac Plans. The rich get richer. The poor get shafted.

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn't have to interpret what McConnell means. If it's this unclear to us, I have to imagine that it's unclear to Congress as well. I don't understand why Schumer didn't nail McConnell down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His words were not exactly vague. He listed a number of items that are of fundamental interest to senators from many states, red or blue. Participants on this forum can spend countless hours trying to piece together everything what has or has not been promised. The point is he promised nothing. He expressed an intention. That was it.

Really? If McConnell "promised nothing" and it was all just vague intention without any real meat, then let's walk through the options:

1. Dems just gave up. Schumer and all the Democrats knowingly backed down for a promise of "nothing"! They just gave up after all that fighting! That doesn't seem likely. They dug in for a fight and then just got distracted and gave up? Nah.

2. Dems are just stupid. Schumer and all the Democrats were somehow too stupid to realize McConnell's promise was vague.[/i], and posts like yours were the first time they realized McConnell's on-camera promise is vague and squishy. That doesn't seem likely.

3. Dems got scared. Maybe Dems got scared because they realized public opinion was against them? Nope, that doesn't make sense because polling suggests the public blamed Trump and the GOP.

More in new poll blame congressional Republicans for shutdown than Dems
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/370051-poll-more-blame-congressional-republicans-for-shutdown
Trump, GOP lawmakers shoulder more blame for government shutdown: Poll
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/22/donald-trump-gop-lawmakers-shoulder-more-blame-gov/
More Americans blame the GOP for the government shutdown
https://nypost.com/2018/01/22/republicans-shoulder-the-blame-for-government-shutdown-poll/
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/government-shutdown-2018-polls-blame-353728

None of those options make sense to me, which suggests Dems got something more than that 20 seconds of fluff that McConnell blew on camera.

Do you see other options?

Schumer was pressured by other Democrats who were not willing to go the the mat for a long term shut down. There are ten Democratic senators who are up for reelection in 2018 from red states or states that Trump won and they were not about to jeopardize their election chances for the sake of a shut down to help illegals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His words were not exactly vague. He listed a number of items that are of fundamental interest to senators from many states, red or blue. Participants on this forum can spend countless hours trying to piece together everything what has or has not been promised. The point is he promised nothing. He expressed an intention. That was it.

Really? If McConnell "promised nothing" and it was all just vague intention without any real meat, then let's walk through the options:

1. Dems just gave up. Schumer and all the Democrats knowingly backed down for a promise of "nothing"! They just gave up after all that fighting! That doesn't seem likely. They dug in for a fight and then just got distracted and gave up? Nah.

2. Dems are just stupid. Schumer and all the Democrats were somehow too stupid to realize McConnell's promise was vague.[/i], and posts like yours were the first time they realized McConnell's on-camera promise is vague and squishy. That doesn't seem likely.

3. Dems got scared. Maybe Dems got scared because they realized public opinion was against them? Nope, that doesn't make sense because polling suggests the public blamed Trump and the GOP.

More in new poll blame congressional Republicans for shutdown than Dems
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/370051-poll-more-blame-congressional-republicans-for-shutdown
Trump, GOP lawmakers shoulder more blame for government shutdown: Poll
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/22/donald-trump-gop-lawmakers-shoulder-more-blame-gov/
More Americans blame the GOP for the government shutdown
https://nypost.com/2018/01/22/republicans-shoulder-the-blame-for-government-shutdown-poll/
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/government-shutdown-2018-polls-blame-353728

None of those options make sense to me, which suggests Dems got something more than that 20 seconds of fluff that McConnell blew on camera.

Do you see other options?

Anonymous wrote:His words were not exactly vague. He listed a number of items that are of fundamental interest to senators from many states, red or blue. Participants on this forum can spend countless hours trying to piece together everything what has or has not been promised. The point is he promised nothing. He expressed an intention. That was it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link to the cloture video thread. Listen carefully, to all of it, not just the immigration part. As I said before, start around 1:08, and hang in there until at least 1:50.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/698376.page

Yes, he said what he said. But try reading all the news coverage of the issue. There were lots of talks off camera. The coverage makes clear that McConnell promised a lot more than what was said on camera, because he knows Trump and the hard-liners will look to criticize what he said on camera. The Dems would not have backed down based on just the vague words he said on camera. The gist of his promise is to give a true and fair DACA vote. If he just loads up the DACA vote with a bunch of poison pills about wall funding, then he's breaking the spirit of their agreement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link to the cloture video thread. Listen carefully, to all of it, not just the immigration part. As I said before, start around 1:08, and hang in there until at least 1:50.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/698376.page

Listened and to me it suggests that they will be working on bills for any/all the things they listed during the next few weeks, and on the assumption that a budget is passed on Feb 8, if DACA hasn’t come up in a bill/vote by then, it is McConnell’s “intention” to bring it up specifically, before the March deadline.

Anonymous wrote:I am referring to a permanent fix to the DACA situation. What you cited was part of Obama's executive order. Legislation to fix the situation permanently which is the right way to go can be something a lot less than permanent status and a path to citizenship. But the Democrats will resist this because they want amnesty and a path to citizenship.

The rest of what I suggested are things to deal with border security, etc - not directly related to DACA but part of what is needed to avoid a repetition of where we are today. I was around when Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million illegals with the assurance that border security would be ramped up - it did not happen and I doubt if Trump and other Republicans will go along with another fiasco like the one in 1986.

It’s likely a majority of members of Congress in both chambers support enshrining DACA into law. How do we know that? Well, in July, U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a Republican, introduced the “Dream Act of 2017,” which basically codifies DACA. That provision’s co-sponsors include Arizona’s Jeff Flake and Alaska’s Lisa Murkowski, two other Republicans. North Carolina’s Thom Tillis is behind a similar provision called the RAC Act (Recognizing America’s Children) that in effect ensures those currently eligible for DACA could not be deported. ...

That’s why I would conclude that there is a possibility that majorities in both chambers would pass this legislation … if it gets to a formal vote. Of course, that’s a big if that basically comes down to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan’s willingness to bring legislation to the floor that would pass with a majority of Democrats but a minority of Republicans voting yes. That’s something Congressional leaders have been loathe to do [under the "Hastert Rule"].

Hastert Rule: A philosophy that requires the “majority of the majority” to bring up a bill for a vote in the House of Representatives. Republicans have used this rule consistently since Speaker Dennis Hastert wielded it in the mid-1990s to effectively limit the power of the minority party. Democrats were prevented from passing bills with the assistance of a small number of members of the majority party.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/congress-probably-has-the-votes-to-make-daca-law-will-it/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn't have to interpret what McConnell means. If it's this unclear to us, I have to imagine that it's unclear to Congress as well. I don't understand why Schumer didn't nail McConnell down.

I think there are more specifics behind the scenes.

Let's hope so, and it better be in writing. McConnell wouldn't think twice about shafting Schumer.

McConnell would shaft his mother.