Anonymous wrote:There can’t possibly be Dreamers in all 50 states right? There’s lists on twitter of the Dem senators who voted for the CR and “sold out” Dreamers. Looking at the list - sure Fla and Va have lots of Dreamers probably bc they have lots of illegal parents. But the other senators were from - Del, ND, NH, Minn, ME — not exactly huge population centers so I can’t imagine there are huge illegal populations. Why would these states/senators even care about this issue??

Because they have a moral conscience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope. McConnell clearly stated he would allow a vote ONLY IF the government was.open on Feb 8th. If the dems try another shutdown he's off the hook.

Hmm. I didn’t hear McConnell’s statement. But if this is accurate, or at least if he can construe his words to mean this, the Dems could end up at mercy of whether McConnell decides to bring something to a vote or not. And if a vote, whether it actually has in it what Dems want.

You have to read between the lines. McConnell was telling the dems they need to work out a deal BEFORE Feb. 8. If they don't, they should not plan on being able to leverage a floor vote or a shutdown to get what they were unable to negotiate behind them scenes. They'll get a floor vote for a bill if they refuse to compromise, but it won't be one they like, or will be worse than if they had negotiated behind the scenes. McConnell was also suggesting that he would put other goodies on the table I.e. pork of some kind in exchange for an acceptable daca/immigration reform package. But he was clearly telling them that any further posturing was not going anywhere at all.

There can’t possibly be Dreamers in all 50 states right? There’s lists on twitter of the Dem senators who voted for the CR and “sold out” Dreamers. Looking at the list - sure Fla and Va have lots of Dreamers probably bc they have lots of illegal parents. But the other senators were from - Del, ND, NH, Minn, ME — not exactly huge population centers so I can’t imagine there are huge illegal populations. Why would these states/senators even care about this issue??

Here is the link to the cloture video thread. Listen carefully, to all of it, not just the immigration part. As I said before, start around 1:08, and hang in there until at least 1:50.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/698376.page

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the dems who voted to reopen are willing to trust in the good faith of people like Collins, Graham, Flake etc.

There is a bipartisan group of 25 senators working hard to get a bill ready for a floor vote. They will have to watch their backs - Cotton and Perdue have proven to be dishonest at a minimum. Hopefully it will be tough for McConnell to attach a lot of poison pills if there is a large and unified group of senators supporting a moderate bill
What I fear is the WH will try to get everything on their wishlist in exchange for DACA protection. We need comprehensive immigration reform but not on such a short timeline.
Big bills like tax reform and immigration reform need a bipartisan approach and need lots of hearings with expert testimony and floor debate etc

Because they will not go along with what Democrats want?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the cspan video I’m hearing - they work on this now. Predictably they won’t agree. Then they get to Feb 8 - do a budget deal. IF then there is no DACA deal + Dems don’t shut down the govt, THEN McC puts up a DACA bill with all that other stuff. Couldn’t they do a clean budget now, that Dems have no choice but to pass if they want to keep the govt open - which they do now bc DACA only comes up with an open govt. But once a clean budget is passed, GOP can put up any DACA bill it wants and Dems can take it or leave it - but can’t shut down the govt for it bc a budget will already be in place.

So why are people saying another shut down Feb 8?

I think a lot of us are confused. Some believe McConnell said we’ll do DACA by/before Feb 8, at which time we’ll also vote on a budget. But others are saying he said “if the government is open feb 8” which would indicate something more like 1. Budget passes and government is open, then 2. DACA brought up on/after Feb 9 with intent to resolve before March deadline.

The bolded is my interpretation. If that’s what he meant cant the GOP put on the floor some minor DACA deal -like one that says these 700k can stay on work permits permanently but no green card or path to citizenship ever - and Dems have no choice but to take it? If it comes up AFTER the budget is in place, Dems are left with no option of shutting the govt. Why would McC possibly tie it to the budget?

Agreed that yes, if the second interpretation is correct, Dems are at the mercy of whatever McConnell will bring forward. All they could do is wail publicly that GOO are not acting in good faith.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That why schumer was so angry that he had his little shut down tantrum. He thought he had a handshake deal with trump on immigration last week because he conceded all the important deal points but trump pulled the rug out from under him. He still should have not shut down the govt cause now he gave trump a double victory. Trump really ate Schumers lunch on all this.

You're not seeing it from the perspective of Schumer and the Democrats. From their perspective, if they don't stand up to fight for the DACA kids, then all 800,000 of them are subject to deportation starting in March 2018. All those kids were brought to the United States as minors, and have been in the United States for the majority of their lives (some from before they could even walk or speak), so they know the United States as their only home. Many of them have no family elsewhere. If they're tossed out of this country, they will essentially be on the street in a foreign land. Schumer and the Democrats are the last hope for those DACA kids. So for Schumer and the Democrats, this is a moral stand.

For Trump - and I guess for you - it's not about the people or the issue, but rather about the optics of who "wins" and who "loses." So I guess if that's your perspective, then you can say Trump "wins" this round.

Speaking as an independent moderate though, I respect Schumer and the Dems for taking a principled stand to help the DACA kids. They did all they could, and if they are ultimately unable to help those kids, then I won't fault them. If the public polling is any indicator, then a significant majority of people in the United States also agree with them. So even if Trump "wins" by forcing the DACA kids out of the country, he may well face lots of serious backlash.

The fundamental problem is not whether some accommodation should be made for the Dreamers but what the nature of that accommodation should be. The Hispanic lobby and most Democrats want them to be given amnesty with a path to citizenship. But there are other alternatives to protect the Dreamers:

- they could be given 5 year renewable work permits which would grant them permanent resident status as long as they don't break the law
- if the above happens, then one could offer citizenship to those who serve in the armed forces and are honorably discharged

This would be a compromise that would prevent them being deported but still not reward them for breaking the law. But in conjunction with this one would need border security that would minimize the likelihood of this happening again. There would need to be legislation that enable the prompt deportation of those who enter the country illegally. Sanctuary city nonsense would need to end. Chain migration should be limited only to parents and minor children.

Visa overstays should be dealt with by prompt deportation.

Keep in mind that there are millions of people following the rules and waiting patiently to enter the country. Why should Dreamers have precedence over them in permanent resident status?

And if all of the above happens, then the issue remains about what to do with the parents who were the ones who broke the law in the first place.

All of the above would take care of the Dreamers but would not be responsive to what the left wing of the Democratic party wants which is amnesty and citizenship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the cspan video I’m hearing - they work on this now. Predictably they won’t agree. Then they get to Feb 8 - do a budget deal. IF then there is no DACA deal + Dems don’t shut down the govt, THEN McC puts up a DACA bill with all that other stuff. Couldn’t they do a clean budget now, that Dems have no choice but to pass if they want to keep the govt open - which they do now bc DACA only comes up with an open govt. But once a clean budget is passed, GOP can put up any DACA bill it wants and Dems can take it or leave it - but can’t shut down the govt for it bc a budget will already be in place.

So why are people saying another shut down Feb 8?

I think a lot of us are confused. Some believe McConnell said we’ll do DACA by/before Feb 8, at which time we’ll also vote on a budget. But others are saying he said “if the government is open feb 8” which would indicate something more like 1. Budget passes and government is open, then 2. DACA brought up on/after Feb 9 with intent to resolve before March deadline.

The bolded is my interpretation. If that’s what he meant cant the GOP put on the floor some minor DACA deal -like one that says these 700k can stay on work permits permanently but no green card or path to citizenship ever - and Dems have no choice but to take it? If it comes up AFTER the budget is in place, Dems are left with no option of shutting the govt. Why would McC possibly tie it to the budget?

I posted a link to the cloture vote Video in a separate thread, and asked Jeff to consider leaving it. He clearly starts stating around 1:08, and finishes around 1:50. It is not just about DACA or immigration.

Please watch and process.

Anonymous wrote:From the cspan video I’m hearing - they work on this now. Predictably they won’t agree. Then they get to Feb 8 - do a budget deal. IF then there is no DACA deal + Dems don’t shut down the govt, THEN McC puts up a DACA bill with all that other stuff. Couldn’t they do a clean budget now, that Dems have no choice but to pass if they want to keep the govt open - which they do now bc DACA only comes up with an open govt. But once a clean budget is passed, GOP can put up any DACA bill it wants and Dems can take it or leave it - but can’t shut down the govt for it bc a budget will already be in place.

So why are people saying another shut down Feb 8?

I think a lot of us are confused. Some believe McConnell said we’ll do DACA by/before Feb 8, at which time we’ll also vote on a budget. But others are saying he said “if the government is open feb 8” which would indicate something more like 1. Budget passes and government is open, then 2. DACA brought up on/after Feb 9 with intent to resolve before March deadline.

I agree with the "long time Conservative" at 15:12, that immigration is a complex issue with both positives and negatives for the US. A one-size-fits-all approach doesn't make sense. I don't agree with all of 15:12's specific policy ideas, but I agree there should be a system to encourage positive activities and discourage negative ones. In essence, this means offering a path to citizenship for those who contribute positively to society, and removing those who contribute negatively.

Both Republicans and Democrats have wanted this middle ground for decades. But the hard-liner Tea Party people who are now supporting Trump won't compromise toward sensible policy.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the dems who voted to reopen are willing to trust in the good faith of people like Collins, Graham, Flake etc.

There is a bipartisan group of 25 senators working hard to get a bill ready for a floor vote. They will have to watch their backs - Cotton and Perdue have proven to be dishonest at a minimum. Hopefully it will be tough for McConnell to attach a lot of poison pills if there is a large and unified group of senators supporting a moderate bill
What I fear is the WH will try to get everything on their wishlist in exchange for DACA protection. We need comprehensive immigration reform but not on such a short timeline.
Big bills like tax reform and immigration reform need a bipartisan approach and need lots of hearings with expert testimony and floor debate etc

Sorry the first sentence should read that I think the dems who voted to reopen did so because they DO trust the goodwill of Collins, Flake, Graham etc

From the cspan video I’m hearing - they work on this now. Predictably they won’t agree. Then they get to Feb 8 - do a budget deal. IF then there is no DACA deal + Dems don’t shut down the govt, THEN McC puts up a DACA bill with all that other stuff. Couldn’t they do a clean budget now, that Dems have no choice but to pass if they want to keep the govt open - which they do now bc DACA only comes up with an open govt. But once a clean budget is passed, GOP can put up any DACA bill it wants and Dems can take it or leave it - but can’t shut down the govt for it bc a budget will already be in place.

So why are people saying another shut down Feb 8?

I don’t think the dems who voted to reopen are willing to trust in the good faith of people like Collins, Graham, Flake etc.

There is a bipartisan group of 25 senators working hard to get a bill ready for a floor vote. They will have to watch their backs - Cotton and Perdue have proven to be dishonest at a minimum. Hopefully it will be tough for McConnell to attach a lot of poison pills if there is a large and unified group of senators supporting a moderate bill
What I fear is the WH will try to get everything on their wishlist in exchange for DACA protection. We need comprehensive immigration reform but not on such a short timeline.
Big bills like tax reform and immigration reform need a bipartisan approach and need lots of hearings with expert testimony and floor debate etc

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not be PC to the liberals, but these Dreamers need to KNOW THEIR PLACE. Their parents snuck them in illegally, and they have been permitted to remain here and get a free K-12 education, thanks to to the good graces of Americans. Instead of showing appropriate appreciation - yes, appreciation! - this group of people, who graduate from college at a lower rate than Americans, showed nothing but disrespect and venom toward the very congressperson who is fighting on their behalf.

They came across as spoiled brats. I would suggest they organize themselves and elect a spokesperson, who should then write a letter to Congress thanking Americans for their generosity thus far and expressing appreciation for any forthcoming consideration on their behalf. They should include a mention of the wonderful opportunities they have been given here and pledge to be responsible, contributing members of society.

That works much better than saying " you f'ing a-holes better let us stay here, along with our parents!"

Omg yes. The ones on tv are so obnoxious and all speak as if it’s their birth right to be here. One stroke of the pen and you’re out of here so calm yourself and shut the eff up. And no we don’t have to let your parents, aunts/uncles etc stay here nor do we owe any of you citizenship. Be happy if you get a permanent work permit - not even a green card or citizenship.

Signed, White Trash Caucus

Nope and not even white.