Anonymous
Post 04/22/2012 09:37     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:Oh, okay. So, more conjecture. I'm not pretending that people with Ds only have intellectual delays. I found this on the March of Dimes website:

Most of the health problems associated with Down syndrome can be treated, and life expectancy is now about 60 years

I said it was compatible with life and not fatal to distinguish it from conditions like Tay Sachs or Trisomy 18. And Down syndrome is not incompatible with life or fatal. Some people with Ds may have heart defects, for instance, that may result in premature death. People don't die of Down syndrome, and many children with Ds are born without birth defects.


Most fetuses with T21 die before birth. Clearly, it is not always, or even usually, compatible with life.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2012 09:14     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Yes, you can judge decisions other people make! I'm not trying to make those decisions illegal. But I do judge some choices, and I'm sure you do too. People kid themselves. They say; I don't have the resources to take on a child with Ds. But, if they have health insurance (and most people on here do) and live in a county with early intervention (which is mandated by law) then children with Ds specifically don't take many more financial resources than typical kids. Then it's; I can't handle the challenges of a child with an intellectual disability. I'm trying to say that our social construct disregards the lives of the disabled, especially those with intellectual disabilities, which leads people to make decisions based on fear and incorrect assumptions rather than reality.

This whole, "I don't have enough to give this kid what they really deserve," may not really be true. What is true is that the parent is afraid to try, because of all the misinformation and prejudice against people with intellectual disabilities there is. And I would be too. But when you look at those who have, most of them are very grateful for their kids.


I'm 20:01 from this page http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/230128.page . I'm so sick of you repeating this bullshit. Maybe at your socio-economic level this is true but it's not true for those of us who would be upper middle income (HHI of $150,000). My kids don't have Ds but with 2 kids in therapy for the last 5 years, I've met a number of families with Ds kids. It actually doesn't matter what the disorder is, we're getting the same therapies and services. There are significant insurance limitations on therapies and county early intervention services are also limited. While I'm very grateful for the county early intervention programs, they actually represent the minimum level of services, not necessarily therapeutic level of services. And, the county bills your insurance for the visit - meaning you can't do additional private therapies without paying the entire cost out of pocket. It's also difficult to find good service providers that are in network, within a reasonable commuting distance, without a waiting list and with an appointment time that you can make it to. It's a lot easier to get a 9:00 appointment but you'll have to take off work. Most insurances won't allow you to have two therapy sessions on one day - so you can't have speech therapy and occupational therapy on the same day without paying for one of those sessions completely out of pocket. A therapy session is typically $120 for 50 minutes but there are additional costs for the evaluations/re-evaluations because they pass on the costs of the standardized tests that they use. Early intervention will pay for medical/assistive devices expenses not covered by your insurance but that ends at age 3. My kids have to wear custom orthodics coming up to their calves (which many Ds kids have to wear because of low muscle tone). Insurance only covers so much per year and those orthodics can run $600 even though the providers try to help us economize. Then, there's the cost of the shoes. We travel from NOVA to Shoe Train in Cabin John every couple of months because that's the only place we can get shoes to fit over the orthodics. Every other family I know with Ds kids does the same thing. We just can't go to Payless and run in and pick something up.

In your other posts, you've made clear what your issue is -
I think if you feel completely unprepared or unwilling to raise a child with a disability you shouldn't have kids, because you never know what you're going to get.
That's what this really boils down to. Talk all you want about how you feel about 'life' but stop with the bullshit that it's not much different raising SN kids than it is NT kids. It is untrue, disrepectful and incredibly dismissive of the struggles those of us with SN kids are going through.

I'm still waiting for someone to point me to an organziation that will help us in our struggle. See my earlier post for more information on what our needs are.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2012 00:03     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you seen the spontaneous miscarriage, stillbirth and infant mortality rates for Down syndrome?


What are the infant mortality rates of children with Ds? And what are they for children with Ds who don't have heart defects? Would you terminate for a heart defect, but an intellectually normal child? Only 50% of kids with Ds have heart defects and I suspect those are what contribute largely to any increase in infant mortality.


Feel free to use google to find those answers. Please don't act like Down syndrome only impacts intellectual capabilities.


Oh, okay. So, more conjecture. I'm not pretending that people with Ds only have intellectual delays. I found this on the March of Dimes website:

Most of the health problems associated with Down syndrome can be treated, and life expectancy is now about 60 years

I said it was compatible with life and not fatal to distinguish it from conditions like Tay Sachs or Trisomy 18. And Down syndrome is not incompatible with life or fatal. Some people with Ds may have heart defects, for instance, that may result in premature death. People don't die of Down syndrome, and many children with Ds are born without birth defects.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 23:57     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:Have you seen the spontaneous miscarriage, stillbirth and infant mortality rates for Down syndrome?


What are the infant mortality rates of children with Ds? And what are they for children with Ds who don't have heart defects? Would you terminate for a heart defect, but an intellectually normal child? Only 50% of kids with Ds have heart defects and I suspect those are what contribute largely to any increase in infant mortality.


Feel free to use google to find those answers. Please don't act like Down syndrome only impacts intellectual capabilities.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 23:51     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"opt out" what a nice euphemism for abortion. Makes it sound like you've decided not to take the vacation after all. I love how people say, "oh these kids are great, of course they mean a lot to their families," but no way in hell I'd willingly have a kid like that. They are so great, but not good enough for me. Why don't we just say what these decisions really mean.

We think people with disabilities are a burden to their families, they bring their families down, and the weight of caring for them is not worth their life. Although you wanted the baby you are pregnant with, once you find out they have a disability like Down syndrome (compatible with life and not fatal) you do decide that their lives are not worth the potential costs to you if you terminate. I will not allow you to be born because I do not want to care for someone like you.

So is it reasonable to get pregnant if one is completely unable to care for a disabled kid? What about all the stuff that can turn up but doesn't show up on prenatal tests? Just hope you don't get pregnant with a kid that has a disability that doesn't show up on ultrasound or amnio or CVS? I guess there is no way to eliminate that unfortunate possibility. I think if you feel completely unprepared or unwilling to raise a child with a disability you shouldn't have kids, because you never know what you're going to get.


Have you seen the spontaneous miscarriage, stillbirth and infant mortality rates for Down syndrome?


What are the infant mortality rates of children with Ds? And what are they for children with Ds who don't have heart defects? Would you terminate for a heart defect, but an intellectually normal child? Only 50% of kids with Ds have heart defects and I suspect those are what contribute largely to any increase in infant mortality.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 23:49     Subject: Re:s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
^^^I didn't say they were "selfish witches" and I don't believe that. I think people do make these decisions based on fear and I think it's sad that more people can't come around to the belief that people with Ds should be able to live.

Can you honestly say that terminating for Ds is in the best interest of the kid? You may think you wouldn't be happy living with an intellectual disability, but most people with Ds self-report[b] being happy with their lives. And let's face it, examples that will pop up after I post this notwithstanding, most people on DCUM do have the resources to care for a child with Ds.

And isn't it a valid question: if you truly feel incapable or unwilling to raise a child with a disabling condition should you plan to have children. You really do never know what you're going to get. The things that can be eliminated through prenatal testing just scratch the surface of what can "go wrong."
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 23:43     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:"opt out" what a nice euphemism for abortion. Makes it sound like you've decided not to take the vacation after all. I love how people say, "oh these kids are great, of course they mean a lot to their families," but no way in hell I'd willingly have a kid like that. They are so great, but not good enough for me. Why don't we just say what these decisions really mean.

We think people with disabilities are a burden to their families, they bring their families down, and the weight of caring for them is not worth their life. Although you wanted the baby you are pregnant with, once you find out they have a disability like Down syndrome (compatible with life and not fatal) you do decide that their lives are not worth the potential costs to you if you terminate. I will not allow you to be born because I do not want to care for someone like you.

So is it reasonable to get pregnant if one is completely unable to care for a disabled kid? What about all the stuff that can turn up but doesn't show up on prenatal tests? Just hope you don't get pregnant with a kid that has a disability that doesn't show up on ultrasound or amnio or CVS? I guess there is no way to eliminate that unfortunate possibility. I think if you feel completely unprepared or unwilling to raise a child with a disability you shouldn't have kids, because you never know what you're going to get.


Have you seen the spontaneous miscarriage, stillbirth and infant mortality rates for Down syndrome?
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 23:28     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
They say; I don't have the resources to take on a child with Ds. But, if they have health insurance (and most people on here do) and live in a county with early intervention (which is mandated by law) then children with Ds specifically don't take many more financial resources than typical kids. Then it's; I can't handle the challenges of a child with an intellectual disability. I'm trying to say that our social construct disregards the lives of the disabled, especially those with intellectual disabilities, which leads people to make decisions based on fear and incorrect assumptions rather than reality.

This whole, "I don't have enough to give this kid what they really deserve," may not really be true. What is true is that the parent is afraid to try, because of all the misinformation and prejudice against people with intellectual disabilities there is. And I would be too. But when you look at those who have, most of them are very grateful for their kids.

you are completely alone when you have a disabled child
you do not realize it until you have the child
Insurance does not cover everything, insurance companies find ways to drop coverage. Help you get from state is dependent on your income. The calculation does not take into account the number of kids already in the family, student loans, mortgage etc
You really are expected to have an employer that is OK with you taking a lot of time off work to take the kid to all the therapies, and then magically have the money to pay for it all.
It never ends. There is nothing for those with older ds kids. Some help available when the kid is small and cute, that does not last long.


This PP is correct. I have several close friends whose children have DS. Health insurance does NOT cover everything (these are people with good jobs and good insurance). These children -who are high functioning- will never live on their own. The children -across the board- were almost 8 before being potty trained (as just one example). Multiple health problems attendant to the DS. It is draining on a marriage (as I saw first hand). Parents miss a LOT of work or opt out altogether to deal with therapy, doctors, etc. The parents of one of the families have gone through severe depression -both- and adjustment to the reality of their lives. It's not all rainbows and puppy dogs. It's hard work. Their kids are GREAT kids. They are very loved. But, let's not paint a picture that just is not true for many, many people.

I'm glad some of you had such easy experiences. That is not always the case. No one is saying -well, at least I'm not saying- that these children have less value or are worth less. But, I'm not going to judge someone from opting out of this lifestyle. It's hard. It's expensive. It's not for everyone.

Flame away.


"opt out" what a nice euphemism for abortion. Makes it sound like you've decided not to take the vacation after all. I love how people say, "oh these kids are great, of course they mean a lot to their families," but no way in hell I'd willingly have a kid like that. They are so great, but not good enough for me. Why don't we just say what these decisions really mean.

We think people with disabilities are a burden to their families, they bring their families down, and the weight of caring for them is not worth their life. Although you wanted the baby you are pregnant with, once you find out they have a disability like Down syndrome (compatible with life and not fatal) you do decide that their lives are not worth the potential costs to you if you terminate. I will not allow you to be born because I do not want to care for someone like you.

So is it reasonable to get pregnant if one is completely unable to care for a disabled kid? What about all the stuff that can turn up but doesn't show up on prenatal tests? Just hope you don't get pregnant with a kid that has a disability that doesn't show up on ultrasound or amnio or CVS? I guess there is no way to eliminate that unfortunate possibility. I think if you feel completely unprepared or unwilling to raise a child with a disability you shouldn't have kids, because you never know what you're going to get.


Exactly, every mom who terminates for medical reasons is a selfish witch that can't look beyond her own knows and is a total narcissist. Happy now? Is that what you want to hear?
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 23:16     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
They say; I don't have the resources to take on a child with Ds. But, if they have health insurance (and most people on here do) and live in a county with early intervention (which is mandated by law) then children with Ds specifically don't take many more financial resources than typical kids. Then it's; I can't handle the challenges of a child with an intellectual disability. I'm trying to say that our social construct disregards the lives of the disabled, especially those with intellectual disabilities, which leads people to make decisions based on fear and incorrect assumptions rather than reality.

This whole, "I don't have enough to give this kid what they really deserve," may not really be true. What is true is that the parent is afraid to try, because of all the misinformation and prejudice against people with intellectual disabilities there is. And I would be too. But when you look at those who have, most of them are very grateful for their kids.

you are completely alone when you have a disabled child
you do not realize it until you have the child
Insurance does not cover everything, insurance companies find ways to drop coverage. Help you get from state is dependent on your income. The calculation does not take into account the number of kids already in the family, student loans, mortgage etc
You really are expected to have an employer that is OK with you taking a lot of time off work to take the kid to all the therapies, and then magically have the money to pay for it all.
It never ends. There is nothing for those with older ds kids. Some help available when the kid is small and cute, that does not last long.


This PP is correct. I have several close friends whose children have DS. Health insurance does NOT cover everything (these are people with good jobs and good insurance). These children -who are high functioning- will never live on their own. The children -across the board- were almost 8 before being potty trained (as just one example). Multiple health problems attendant to the DS. It is draining on a marriage (as I saw first hand). Parents miss a LOT of work or opt out altogether to deal with therapy, doctors, etc. The parents of one of the families have gone through severe depression -both- and adjustment to the reality of their lives. It's not all rainbows and puppy dogs. It's hard work. Their kids are GREAT kids. They are very loved. But, let's not paint a picture that just is not true for many, many people.

I'm glad some of you had such easy experiences. That is not always the case. No one is saying -well, at least I'm not saying- that these children have less value or are worth less. But, I'm not going to judge someone from opting out of this lifestyle. It's hard. It's expensive. It's not for everyone.

Flame away.


"opt out" what a nice euphemism for abortion. Makes it sound like you've decided not to take the vacation after all. I love how people say, "oh these kids are great, of course they mean a lot to their families," but no way in hell I'd willingly have a kid like that. They are so great, but not good enough for me. Why don't we just say what these decisions really mean.

We think people with disabilities are a burden to their families, they bring their families down, and the weight of caring for them is not worth their life. Although you wanted the baby you are pregnant with, once you find out they have a disability like Down syndrome (compatible with life and not fatal) you do decide that their lives are not worth the potential costs to you if you terminate. I will not allow you to be born because I do not want to care for someone like you.

So is it reasonable to get pregnant if one is completely unable to care for a disabled kid? What about all the stuff that can turn up but doesn't show up on prenatal tests? Just hope you don't get pregnant with a kid that has a disability that doesn't show up on ultrasound or amnio or CVS? I guess there is no way to eliminate that unfortunate possibility. I think if you feel completely unprepared or unwilling to raise a child with a disability you shouldn't have kids, because you never know what you're going to get.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 22:28     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
They say; I don't have the resources to take on a child with Ds. But, if they have health insurance (and most people on here do) and live in a county with early intervention (which is mandated by law) then children with Ds specifically don't take many more financial resources than typical kids. Then it's; I can't handle the challenges of a child with an intellectual disability. I'm trying to say that our social construct disregards the lives of the disabled, especially those with intellectual disabilities, which leads people to make decisions based on fear and incorrect assumptions rather than reality.

This whole, "I don't have enough to give this kid what they really deserve," may not really be true. What is true is that the parent is afraid to try, because of all the misinformation and prejudice against people with intellectual disabilities there is. And I would be too. But when you look at those who have, most of them are very grateful for their kids.

you are completely alone when you have a disabled child
you do not realize it until you have the child
Insurance does not cover everything, insurance companies find ways to drop coverage. Help you get from state is dependent on your income. The calculation does not take into account the number of kids already in the family, student loans, mortgage etc
You really are expected to have an employer that is OK with you taking a lot of time off work to take the kid to all the therapies, and then magically have the money to pay for it all.
It never ends. There is nothing for those with older ds kids. Some help available when the kid is small and cute, that does not last long.


This PP is correct. I have several close friends whose children have DS. Health insurance does NOT cover everything (these are people with good jobs and good insurance). These children -who are high functioning- will never live on their own. The children -across the board- were almost 8 before being potty trained (as just one example). Multiple health problems attendant to the DS. It is draining on a marriage (as I saw first hand). Parents miss a LOT of work or opt out altogether to deal with therapy, doctors, etc. The parents of one of the families have gone through severe depression -both- and adjustment to the reality of their lives. It's not all rainbows and puppy dogs. It's hard work. Their kids are GREAT kids. They are very loved. But, let's not paint a picture that just is not true for many, many people.

I'm glad some of you had such easy experiences. That is not always the case. No one is saying -well, at least I'm not saying- that these children have less value or are worth less. But, I'm not going to judge someone from opting out of this lifestyle. It's hard. It's expensive. It's not for everyone.

Flame away.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 22:10     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
They say; I don't have the resources to take on a child with Ds. But, if they have health insurance (and most people on here do) and live in a county with early intervention (which is mandated by law) then children with Ds specifically don't take many more financial resources than typical kids. Then it's; I can't handle the challenges of a child with an intellectual disability. I'm trying to say that our social construct disregards the lives of the disabled, especially those with intellectual disabilities, which leads people to make decisions based on fear and incorrect assumptions rather than reality.

This whole, "I don't have enough to give this kid what they really deserve," may not really be true. What is true is that the parent is afraid to try, because of all the misinformation and prejudice against people with intellectual disabilities there is. And I would be too. But when you look at those who have, most of them are very grateful for their kids.

you are completely alone when you have a disabled child
you do not realize it until you have the child
Insurance does not cover everything, insurance companies find ways to drop coverage. Help you get from state is dependent on your income. The calculation does not take into account the number of kids already in the family, student loans, mortgage etc
You really are expected to have an employer that is OK with you taking a lot of time off work to take the kid to all the therapies, and then magically have the money to pay for it all.
It never ends. There is nothing for those with older ds kids. Some help available when the kid is small and cute, that does not last long.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 21:27     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP here: ^^ great. Please go away. You have no idea what you are talking about.


Really? How can you be so sure? I actually do both have experience with this and believe kids with Ds have real potential and as much a right to be here as anyone else. I am also pro-choice.

But nice try making lots of assumptions about me.


But PP, that is YOUR experience and it's not everyone else's. That's where you are all so closed minded. Because in your world it works out great doesn't mean that it works out wonderful for everyone else. Just please have the mental capacity to understand it's not the same experience for everyone.


I am close minded to say that people should consider that their assumptions about life with a person with Down syndrome may be incorrect before terminating? I'm not opposed to abortion but lots of people make that choice without really knowing all that much about what Ds means for real families. Termination is permanent. Maybe people on here educate themselves before making those decisions (although there is alot of misinformation being perpetuated on this thread) but everyone certainly does not. The reality is that many people are afraid of people with intellectual disabilities and don't value their lives as much as they do others and fear pushes people to terminate.

Why don't you just please have the mental capacity to understand that the lives of those with Ds, not just "cute" children, actually do have value, despite the fact that there may be challenges and that many people don't even know that much about the disability before they end their kid's life.


I actually don't disagree with you on your point that disabled children and adults have value. I have much respect for a family that decides to have their baby despite the knowledge of this baby having a mental disability. What you need to understand is people will see this challenge differently and may not have to offer what a child like this truly deserves. Throw in how ugly and disgusting this world can towards the disabled. Again, while you may have the resources to take on all the challenges, many of us wouldn't and don't. So it's not your place to judge who thinks what and what they decide to do. You are talking about other people's lives. Who are you to know what the best thing for someone's life is? I have worked with disabled children and adults. Some of them do nothing but suffer all day long. To me that's just cruel.


Yes, you can judge decisions other people make! I'm not trying to make those decisions illegal. But I do judge some choices, and I'm sure you do too. People kid themselves. They say; I don't have the resources to take on a child with Ds. But, if they have health insurance (and most people on here do) and live in a county with early intervention (which is mandated by law) then children with Ds specifically don't take many more financial resources than typical kids. Then it's; I can't handle the challenges of a child with an intellectual disability. I'm trying to say that our social construct disregards the lives of the disabled, especially those with intellectual disabilities, which leads people to make decisions based on fear and incorrect assumptions rather than reality.

This whole, "I don't have enough to give this kid what they really deserve," may not really be true. What is true is that the parent is afraid to try, because of all the misinformation and prejudice against people with intellectual disabilities there is. And I would be too. But when you look at those who have, most of them are very grateful for their kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 21:13     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP here: ^^ great. Please go away. You have no idea what you are talking about.


Really? How can you be so sure? I actually do both have experience with this and believe kids with Ds have real potential and as much a right to be here as anyone else. I am also pro-choice.

But nice try making lots of assumptions about me.


But PP, that is YOUR experience and it's not everyone else's. That's where you are all so closed minded. Because in your world it works out great doesn't mean that it works out wonderful for everyone else. Just please have the mental capacity to understand it's not the same experience for everyone.


I am close minded to say that people should consider that their assumptions about life with a person with Down syndrome may be incorrect before terminating? I'm not opposed to abortion but lots of people make that choice without really knowing all that much about what Ds means for real families. Termination is permanent. Maybe people on here educate themselves before making those decisions (although there is alot of misinformation being perpetuated on this thread) but everyone certainly does not. The reality is that many people are afraid of people with intellectual disabilities and don't value their lives as much as they do others and fear pushes people to terminate.

Why don't you just please have the mental capacity to understand that the lives of those with Ds, not just "cute" children, actually do have value, despite the fact that there may be challenges and that many people don't even know that much about the disability before they end their kid's life.


I actually don't disagree with you on your point that disabled children and adults have value. I have much respect for a family that decides to have their baby despite the knowledge of this baby having a mental disability. What you need to understand is people will see this challenge differently and may not have to offer what a child like this truly deserves. Throw in how ugly and disgusting this world can towards the disabled. Again, while you may have the resources to take on all the challenges, many of us wouldn't and don't. So it's not your place to judge who thinks what and what they decide to do. You are talking about other people's lives. Who are you to know what the best thing for someone's life is? I have worked with disabled children and adults. Some of them do nothing but suffer all day long. To me that's just cruel.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 20:58     Subject: Re:s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay, I give up. Obviously the only right thing to do is abort kids with Down syndrome, and anyone who thinks differently is just in denial, an asshole, or trying to control other people. Too bad people with Ds don't get a say in this.

And yes, to the PP, having a child with Ds is very much like having a typical kid, hard as that obviously is for those in this thread to believe. Most children with Ds don't have "wires coming out of every orifice."

Why can't the pro-choice crowd argue for choice without shitting all over the lives of people with Ds?


This is ridiculous. I don't know if you are the OP, but the OP STARTED THE ARGUMENT but shitting all over people who decided to terminate pregnancies. YOUR CHOICE to continue a pregnancy like this is grand great wonderful and YOUR BUSINESS. No one here is judging you for doing that, but you are judging others for their choices. So then you don't get to throw your hands up when people disagree.

I terminated a pregnancy due to T21, I have complicated chronic health issues of my own that played into the decision. Do I feel terrible, guilty, and heartbroken every single day? YES. Am I in disbelief of what happened because it is so horrid? YES. Is that what you want to hear?

But then, How sure am I that I made the right decision? The one that would most likely save my body for more time (lifting heavy weight and certain physical movement actually destroys my spinal cord) and allow myself to continue to be a mother of our one other child, and assist in providing financially for our family, instead of becoming completely disabled at a young age (instead of just middle age) and causing major hardship on all of our lives? I am 100% sure that we made the right decision.

This duality of thought is surprising, and incredibly difficult to understand if you haven't been through it yourself. And, according to the shrink I started to see, this is the conflict that almost every single person she has seen (many) in this situation goes through.

People who live with DS or are caregiver's of them are completely wonderful. But there is nothing you can say that will convince me that it is like raising a NT child. Our visit to Children's to discuss the realities of the situation confirmed this for us anyway.


So did you terminate because you have health problems, or because the baby had Down syndrome? Would you have terminated if the baby didn't have Ds? (was this about the T21, or about your health).

At any rate I don't know what the docs at Children's told you. I can't contradict it, obviously. I can only say that in my life I have come into contact with many many families with children with Ds because I have a sibling with Ds and their children have been more like other kids than not, and have brought a lot to their families and society. Most kids with Ds are now mainstreamed in inclusive classrooms. My DD right now has a little boy with Ds in her class. He gets therapies, yes. But he is also a little boy...talks, runs, plays with the other kids, understands everything going on around him, has a personality, is a PERSON. A real fucking PERSON, not a syndrome.

And he's an easier kid than my niece with autism. Having a kid is a big fat risky risk. You never know who your kid will be and what problems they might have.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2012 20:44     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP here: ^^ great. Please go away. You have no idea what you are talking about.


Really? How can you be so sure? I actually do both have experience with this and believe kids with Ds have real potential and as much a right to be here as anyone else. I am also pro-choice.

But nice try making lots of assumptions about me.


But PP, that is YOUR experience and it's not everyone else's. That's where you are all so closed minded. Because in your world it works out great doesn't mean that it works out wonderful for everyone else. Just please have the mental capacity to understand it's not the same experience for everyone.


I am close minded to say that people should consider that their assumptions about life with a person with Down syndrome may be incorrect before terminating? I'm not opposed to abortion but lots of people make that choice without really knowing all that much about what Ds means for real families. Termination is permanent. Maybe people on here educate themselves before making those decisions (although there is alot of misinformation being perpetuated on this thread) but everyone certainly does not. The reality is that many people are afraid of people with intellectual disabilities and don't value their lives as much as they do others and fear pushes people to terminate.

Why don't you just please have the mental capacity to understand that the lives of those with Ds, not just "cute" children, actually do have value, despite the fact that there may be challenges and that many people don't even know that much about the disability before they end their kid's life.