Anonymous
03/20/2023 12:42
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.
I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.
For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.
DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.
I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.
Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.
Shes not at DCPS #1 (never said she was, I said she was at a highly sought-after PS system) and #2 shes going to a fed job.
I am surprised you feel so emboldened to make projections without all of the information but please continue with the math........
and its 15k THE FIRST YEAR. She's guaranteed pay raises, step increases, likely a grade increase, and COLAs. The most she can currently make as a teacher with a master's +30 is 107 and that's after 25 years so an additional 5 years. and then it doesn't increase after that except for COLAs.
Oooo, hate to tell you about the lack of fed pay increases. Also, the teacher pension is better than fed retirement.
But as you said, none of that matters so who cares, amirite.
DP.
It seems that you don’t want to accept that teachers have it bad right now. That pension only matters if a teacher can GET there.
I’m the one who quit after 14 years. Many of my former coworkers are working different jobs now, too. It isn’t that hard for teachers to find other employment.
If you are so determined to say teachers have it good, I encourage you to apply. There are tons of openings, and you don’t even need certification anymore in many districts.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 12:37
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.
I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.
For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.
DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.
I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.
Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.
Shes not at DCPS #1 (never said she was, I said she was at a highly sought-after PS system) and #2 shes going to a fed job.
I am surprised you feel so emboldened to make projections without all of the information but please continue with the math........
and its 15k THE FIRST YEAR. She's guaranteed pay raises, step increases, likely a grade increase, and COLAs. The most she can currently make as a teacher with a master's +30 is 107 and that's after 25 years so an additional 5 years. and then it doesn't increase after that except for COLAs.
Oooo, hate to tell you about the lack of fed pay increases. Also, the teacher pension is better than fed retirement.
But as you said, none of that matters so who cares, amirite.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 12:31
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.
I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.
For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.
DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.
I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.
Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.
Shes not at DCPS #1 (never said she was, I said she was at a highly sought-after PS system) and #2 shes going to a fed job.
I am surprised you feel so emboldened to make projections without all of the information but please continue with the math........
and its 15k THE FIRST YEAR. She's guaranteed pay raises, step increases, likely a grade increase, and COLAs. The most she can currently make as a teacher with a master's +30 is 107 and that's after 25 years so an additional 5 years. and then it doesn't increase after that except for COLAs.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 12:17
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.
I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.
For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.
DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.
I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.
Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.
Because you're looking at it strictly from a numbers side. Teachers are telling you it's not worth it. Move on
I quit after 14 years. There’s no way I was going to make it to retirement. The job is HORRIBLE. Unless you’ve taught, you really don’t understand the emotional and physical toll of the school day. You can throw $750,000 at me and I won’t go back to the public school system. Yes, I think it’s that bad.
My mental health and my family are worth more than 30+ years in hell.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 12:12
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:It really seems like Council has given up on trying to improve education in DC. I get wanting to retain teachers, but there seems to be little in these proposals that even considers impacts on children (let alone parents). But I guess the goal is to just have warm bodies in the schools; there's no goal to improve what kids are learning (or not).
Parents and children are not an organized constiuency in DC. MCPS is not great but at least in MoCo they know there are limits.
In DC, the majority of parents are poor and have little political capital. In W7 and W8 you need union support to get elected, parents do not matter.
In W3 parents have bitten the bullet and are generally OK with their schools or have been thoroughly acculturated to the notion that if they don’t like it, they move or go private.
In W6 the parents with potential political capital who stick it out in DCPS have the express belief that their child does not actually need to be educated (yes, they say this) so they are not going to challenge the status quo. Eventually they go private or move.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 11:24
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
It really seems like Council has given up on trying to improve education in DC. I get wanting to retain teachers, but there seems to be little in these proposals that even considers impacts on children (let alone parents). But I guess the goal is to just have warm bodies in the schools; there's no goal to improve what kids are learning (or not).
Anonymous
03/20/2023 11:18
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.
I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.
For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.
DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.
I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.
Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.
Because you're looking at it strictly from a numbers side. Teachers are telling you it's not worth it. Move on
Well, at least this suggests that pay for individual teachers isn't the thing to worry about the most.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 11:14
Subject: what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.
No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.
Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.
Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.
There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.
What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.
Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.
So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.
I think the point made at the beginning of this thread, is that its not the teachers that need to accept this or continue to be flexible. Teachers are making it pretty clear this is unsustainable from a QoL and all of the "My job is also hard" or "but you have summers off" or "retirement benefits" aren't going to sway them, regardless of your personal opinion.
They should take another job. Just to show I'm not a jerk, I'll support an 18-month hire-back guarantee. Clocks starts when the decide to take me up on it. They're first lesson will be "jesus christ, it's hard to find a job nowadays."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH my best friend with almost 20 years of teaching experience who runs a specialized program for students in a highly desired school system is leaving. And will be making 15k more with WAH capability.
3 main reasons she is leaving
1. pay
2. lack of time with her own children and flexibility
3. parents who decide that HS means they no longer have to parent their children
Your best friend is an idiot. $15K more per year doesn't cover the delta in her retirement and health insurance benefits. Not even the retirement benefits alone.
Really, really unlikely that she ends up with more time with her own children. I think the teachers here have a distorted view of the 'joys' of WFH.
I dunno where they could get that from.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1120562.page
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1119248.page
Yep, distorted. That's not everyone, and those situations won't last.
Yep, people having dead time at work is a new phenomenom....
Anonymous
03/20/2023 11:12
Subject: what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.
No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.
Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.
There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.
What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.
Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.
So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.
I think the point made at the beginning of this thread, is that its not the teachers that need to accept this or continue to be flexible. Teachers are making it pretty clear this is unsustainable from a QoL and all of the "My job is also hard" or "but you have summers off" or "retirement benefits" aren't going to sway them, regardless of your personal opinion.
They should take another job. Just to show I'm not a jerk, I'll support an 18-month hire-back guarantee. Clocks starts when the decide to take me up on it. They're first lesson will be "jesus christ, it's hard to find a job nowadays."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH my best friend with almost 20 years of teaching experience who runs a specialized program for students in a highly desired school system is leaving. And will be making 15k more with WAH capability.
3 main reasons she is leaving
1. pay
2. lack of time with her own children and flexibility
3. parents who decide that HS means they no longer have to parent their children
Your best friend is an idiot. $15K more per year doesn't cover the delta in her retirement and health insurance benefits. Not even the retirement benefits alone.
Really, really unlikely that she ends up with more time with her own children. I think the teachers here have a distorted view of the 'joys' of WFH.
I dunno where they could get that from.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1120562.page
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1119248.page
Yep, distorted. That's not everyone, and those situations won't last.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 11:10
Subject: what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.
No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.
Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.
There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.
What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.
Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.
So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.
I think the point made at the beginning of this thread, is that its not the teachers that need to accept this or continue to be flexible. Teachers are making it pretty clear this is unsustainable from a QoL and all of the "My job is also hard" or "but you have summers off" or "retirement benefits" aren't going to sway them, regardless of your personal opinion.
They should take another job. Just to show I'm not a jerk, I'll support an 18-month hire-back guarantee. Clocks starts when the decide to take me up on it. They're first lesson will be "jesus christ, it's hard to find a job nowadays."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH my best friend with almost 20 years of teaching experience who runs a specialized program for students in a highly desired school system is leaving. And will be making 15k more with WAH capability.
3 main reasons she is leaving
1. pay
2. lack of time with her own children and flexibility
3. parents who decide that HS means they no longer have to parent their children
Your best friend is an idiot. $15K more per year doesn't cover the delta in her retirement and health insurance benefits. Not even the retirement benefits alone.
Really, really unlikely that she ends up with more time with her own children. I think the teachers here have a distorted view of the 'joys' of WFH.
I dunno where they could get that from.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1120562.page
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1119248.page
Anonymous
03/20/2023 11:07
Subject: what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.
No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.
Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.
There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.
What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.
Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.
So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.
I think the point made at the beginning of this thread, is that its not the teachers that need to accept this or continue to be flexible. Teachers are making it pretty clear this is unsustainable from a QoL and all of the "My job is also hard" or "but you have summers off" or "retirement benefits" aren't going to sway them, regardless of your personal opinion.
They should take another job. Just to show I'm not a jerk, I'll support an 18-month hire-back guarantee. Clocks starts when the decide to take me up on it. They're first lesson will be "jesus christ, it's hard to find a job nowadays."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH my best friend with almost 20 years of teaching experience who runs a specialized program for students in a highly desired school system is leaving. And will be making 15k more with WAH capability.
3 main reasons she is leaving
1. pay
2. lack of time with her own children and flexibility
3. parents who decide that HS means they no longer have to parent their children
Your best friend is an idiot. $15K more per year doesn't cover the delta in her retirement and health insurance benefits. Not even the retirement benefits alone.
Really, really unlikely that she ends up with more time with her own children. I think the teachers here have a distorted view of the 'joys' of WFH.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 11:06
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.
I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.
For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.
DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.
I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.
Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.
Because you're looking at it strictly from a numbers side. Teachers are telling you it's not worth it. Move on
Anonymous
03/20/2023 10:56
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.
I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.
For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.
DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.
I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.
Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 10:38
Subject: what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.
No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.
Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.
There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.
What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.
Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.
So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.
I think the point made at the beginning of this thread, is that its not the teachers that need to accept this or continue to be flexible. Teachers are making it pretty clear this is unsustainable from a QoL and all of the "My job is also hard" or "but you have summers off" or "retirement benefits" aren't going to sway them, regardless of your personal opinion.
They should take another job. Just to show I'm not a jerk, I'll support an 18-month hire-back guarantee. Clocks starts when the decide to take me up on it. They're first lesson will be "jesus christ, it's hard to find a job nowadays."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH my best friend with almost 20 years of teaching experience who runs a specialized program for students in a highly desired school system is leaving. And will be making 15k more with WAH capability.
3 main reasons she is leaving
1. pay
2. lack of time with her own children and flexibility
3. parents who decide that HS means they no longer have to parent their children
It's interesting that you bring up the deficiencies of parents here. It that's an issue, how would flexible scheduling help? Particularly if you don't ask what impact the flexible scheduling would have on the ability of parents to ...oh....be present for their children when they are not in school.
It doesn't you obtuse moose.
It addresses #1 and #2. Pay is more flexible for most people if their schedule is flexible. Rigidity and increased hours correlate to increased pay. When I worked overnight and weekends for organ donation I was paid accordingly. When people bring up nurses, you realize they have 1) the ability to request coverage and 2) different shifts which are both concepts of flexibility. Nurses hate to call out on shifts because they know that without appropriate coverage, the nurses on the floor have to cover their patient load or a nursing supervisor has to get on the floor. Luckily, there are 3 shifts per day so again, more options that with teaching.
No need to be an entire cow about it. You note that the thing being discussed here -- flexible scheduling -- doesn't address one of the major issues facing teachers. And that apparently the effort doesn't even begin to ponder how it might exacerbate one of the main problems for teachers (bad parents).
You cant address that as a school system. Thats not on teachers to address.
Oh, but it is the government's job to care about kids getting education (even if their parents don't care). Plus the government is trying to retain teachers. If you adopt a policy that in one way ACTUALLY HURTS TEACHERS, then that's a bad policy because it won't do what it is supposed to do.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 10:36
Subject: Re:what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?
The lack of math hurts me.