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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Yeah, um, what are we supposed to do, lament about how empty their life is because they don't have kids?  I'm guilty of doing this because of all things, I'd think they'd want to feel better about the crappy stuff they won't have to go through if they never have kids.  I mean, how else would you eventually come to peace with infertility?   Maybe I'm Captain Insensitive, but it would make me feel better when I THINK the grass is greener, then realize it's not quite what it's cracked up to be.

And I'm sorry, I love my kids, but they will grow up learning that Dad and Mom need grown up time too, and that the love is there no matter what, even if Mom and Dad's world doesn't always revolve around them. [/quote]

I agree with you - I was kind of pointing out to poster who said "Moms and Dads who know you are TTC and some who even know you have fertility issues and complain to you about how annoying their kids are, what a pain in the ass they are and then ask you "are you sure you want kids?" and then laugh" that as a person who did not struggle with infertility (so far, only have one child) that it can be hard to navigate this. Unless we just don't talk about kids, period. But I am guilty of highlighting the hardships just because it's obnoxious to talk about how great being a mom is when someone is going through infertility.

I think the take-away from these last group of postings is though there are some standard rules to not be an asshole we all know, some of these issues are hard because you just don't know what a person wants to hear if they are struggling with something. And some of the time WE may have struggled with it, and are acting to another person how we wished people would have acted to us, but it may be the exact opposite of how THEY want to be treated.

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You are misunderstanding.  I babysit for my friend's kids all the time and even have weekly play dates with friends and their kids.  I love their kids and I am always happy to lend a hand even if it's just listening to them talk about the struggles of nap time, cloth diapers, nursing two kids, hitting, not eating, colic, potty training, etc...  Complain to me that it's hard, complain to me that it is a struggle.  I know it is and I am happy to be supportive and helpful if I can be.  Don't hide your struggles or your joys from me.

But don't insult me by saying, "oh these things are so hard that you are so much better off not having kids."  99% of the people that say this, say it as a joke.  None of them would give up their kids if given the chance to do it over and not experience the struggles of parenthood.  I'm sure that even on your worst day you still love your kids and can't imagine life with out them.  So why pretend and say something you don't even believe, that I know you don't believe and that is so hurtful?

And no, trying to convince me the grass is greener is not how I'm going to move on.  I'll adopt if I have to and for those that make the choice not to, they don't find peace by convincing themselves they are better off, they find it by discovering a new life other than what they had planned, rearranging their future and moving forward but not because they were convinced that kids are too difficult and miserable to be around.  
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