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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]UVA has slightly better SAT/ACT averages than UMich.

UVA: 1400-1540, 32-34
Umich; 1340-1520, 31-34

It's silly to claim Umich is definitely a better school. It's larger and colder for sure. The rest ...[/quote]

Shall we bring up all the rankings where Michigan beats UVA? Like. in. every. single. one. This discussion is about school rankings, specifically at USNWR.  [/quote]

List of schools ranked by number of graduate programs ranked in the top 10, which shows the clear UVA advantage over Michigan . . . oops

Public and Private Universities With the Most Top 10 Graduate Schools, Programs and Specialties in the New 2023-24 U.S. News Rankings

Rank	University	Number of Top 10 Rankings
1	University of Michigan–Ann Arbor	59
1	University of California, Berkeley	59
3	Stanford University	56
4	Massachusetts Institute of Technology	52
5	Harvard University	45
6	Columbia University	41
7	University of Texas at Austin	38
8	Princeton University	31
9	University of California–Los Angeles	29
10	University of Chicago	28
11	University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign	27
12	University of Pennsylvania	26
13	Duke University	25
13	California Institute of Technology	25
15	New York University	24
15	University of Washington	24[/quote]

The above illustrates what truly separates Berkeley and Michigan from the rest of our nation’s public universities.  [/quote]

We shouldn't get [u]too[/u] carried away though. Michigan isn't UVA but it also isn't Berkeley.[/quote]

In this metric, Michigan = Berkeley.
UVA isn't even on the list.

What was your point?[/quote]
That Michigan is a great school that is better than UVA. I don't think it is equal to or better than Berkeley though. 
Also, using top 10 grad program rankings isn't all that relevant to what has primarily been an undergrad discussion (on a thread about undergrad rankings).[/quote]

There is no doubt that Berkeley is better in most shared head to head departmental comparisons between the two schools. The difference is that Michigan offers a fuller spectrum of college disciplines and experiences. It is a more complete university on one campus than Berkeley.  The fine and performing arts don’t take a back seat to the natural and social sciences. Health related education (medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, etc.)  isn’t located at another semi-affiliated campus elsewhere. The excellence is spread out in all areas of endeavor, including athletics where it is strongly supported by enthusiastic students and alumni. There really is no other school in this country that does so many things as well and on such a grand scale. [/quote]

I'm a big Michigan fan but it might as well be multiple campuses with the actual physical geography of it now. It is a valid point that the medical school and hospital are U of M rather than loosely affiliated via UCSF though.

Harvard and Stanford are the standard bearers in American higher ed but its true that even they don't have the breadth that Michigan does.[/quote]

The physical geography at Michigan changed well over 50 years ago when the north campus was being developed. That is nothing new. It’s not just the breadth of Michigan that makes it stand out.  Other schools have breadth, but they don’t offer the overall depth and quality that occurs in Ann Arbor. [/quote]

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