Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth has been wildly overrated for a while, so this new ranking isn’t surprising to me.

Top 15 all look about accurate to me.

True. Dartmouth is truly the lowest ivy. People think it's Cornell because Cornell stats gets dragged down because of its agriculture and hotel schools. But Dartmouth is hands down the easiest ivy to get into.

Very sorry that despite Dartmouth being the "easiest ivy" to get into (your words not mine), your kid STILL didn't get into Dartmouth. Hope you can find solace in wherever your student landed.

Cornell's acceptance rate is 9% (RD). Dartmouth and Brown are tied at 6% (RD). Excluding EDs, Dartmouth and Brown are also tied at 4% while Cornell is 7%.

The data is in College Transitions for 2022 admissions. It's good to be informed of facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless they’re a legacy, your kid isn’t getting in to Dartmouth or Cornell or Harvard.

What do you think is the actual percentage of legacy students in the undergraduate class of an Ivy League school?

36% Harvard

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Anonymous wrote:UVA has slightly better SAT/ACT averages than UMich.

UVA: 1400-1540, 32-34
Umich; 1340-1520, 31-34

It's silly to claim Umich is definitely a better school. It's larger and colder for sure. The rest ...

Shall we bring up all the rankings where Michigan beats UVA? Like. in. every. single. one. This discussion is about school rankings, specifically at USNWR.

List of schools ranked by number of graduate programs ranked in the top 10, which shows the clear UVA advantage over Michigan . . . oops

Public and Private Universities With the Most Top 10 Graduate Schools, Programs and Specialties in the New 2023-24 U.S. News Rankings

Rank University Number of Top 10 Rankings
1 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 59
1 University of California, Berkeley 59
3 Stanford University 56
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 52
5 Harvard University 45
6 Columbia University 41
7 University of Texas at Austin 38
8 Princeton University 31
9 University of California–Los Angeles 29
10 University of Chicago 28
11 University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign 27
12 University of Pennsylvania 26
13 Duke University 25
13 California Institute of Technology 25
15 New York University 24
15 University of Washington 24

The above illustrates what truly separates Berkeley and Michigan from the rest of our nation’s public universities.

We shouldn't get too carried away though. Michigan isn't UVA but it also isn't Berkeley.

In this metric, Michigan = Berkeley.
UVA isn't even on the list.

What was your point?

That Michigan is a great school that is better than UVA. I don't think it is equal to or better than Berkeley though.
Also, using top 10 grad program rankings isn't all that relevant to what has primarily been an undergrad discussion (on a thread about undergrad rankings).

There is no doubt that Berkeley is better in most shared head to head departmental comparisons between the two schools. The difference is that Michigan offers a fuller spectrum of college disciplines and experiences. It is a more complete university on one campus than Berkeley. The fine and performing arts don’t take a back seat to the natural and social sciences. Health related education (medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, etc.) isn’t located at another semi-affiliated campus elsewhere. The excellence is spread out in all areas of endeavor, including athletics where it is strongly supported by enthusiastic students and alumni. There really is no other school in this country that does so many things as well and on such a grand scale.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people just jealous of us UVA grads. JEALOUS

Nah. #5 public. What’s to be jealous of?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA has slightly better SAT/ACT averages than UMich.

UVA: 1400-1540, 32-34
Umich; 1340-1520, 31-34

It's silly to claim Umich is definitely a better school. It's larger and colder for sure. The rest ...

Shall we bring up all the rankings where Michigan beats UVA? Like. in. every. single. one. This discussion is about school rankings, specifically at USNWR.

List of schools ranked by number of graduate programs ranked in the top 10, which shows the clear UVA advantage over Michigan . . . oops

Public and Private Universities With the Most Top 10 Graduate Schools, Programs and Specialties in the New 2023-24 U.S. News Rankings

Rank University Number of Top 10 Rankings
1 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 59
1 University of California, Berkeley 59
3 Stanford University 56
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 52
5 Harvard University 45
6 Columbia University 41
7 University of Texas at Austin 38
8 Princeton University 31
9 University of California–Los Angeles 29
10 University of Chicago 28
11 University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign 27
12 University of Pennsylvania 26
13 Duke University 25
13 California Institute of Technology 25
15 New York University 24
15 University of Washington 24

The above illustrates what truly separates Berkeley and Michigan from the rest of our nation’s public universities.

We shouldn't get too carried away though. Michigan isn't UVA but it also isn't Berkeley.

In this metric, Michigan = Berkeley.
UVA isn't even on the list.

What was your point?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA has slightly better SAT/ACT averages than UMich.

UVA: 1400-1540, 32-34
Umich; 1340-1520, 31-34

It's silly to claim Umich is definitely a better school. It's larger and colder for sure. The rest ...

Shall we bring up all the rankings where Michigan beats UVA? Like. in. every. single. one. This discussion is about school rankings, specifically at USNWR.

List of schools ranked by number of graduate programs ranked in the top 10, which shows the clear UVA advantage over Michigan . . . oops

Public and Private Universities With the Most Top 10 Graduate Schools, Programs and Specialties in the New 2023-24 U.S. News Rankings

Rank University Number of Top 10 Rankings
1 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 59
1 University of California, Berkeley 59
3 Stanford University 56
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 52
5 Harvard University 45
6 Columbia University 41
7 University of Texas at Austin 38
8 Princeton University 31
9 University of California–Los Angeles 29
10 University of Chicago 28
11 University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign 27
12 University of Pennsylvania 26
13 Duke University 25
13 California Institute of Technology 25
15 New York University 24
15 University of Washington 24

The above illustrates what truly separates Berkeley and Michigan from the rest of our nation’s public universities.

We shouldn't get too carried away though. Michigan isn't UVA but it also isn't Berkeley.

In this metric, Michigan = Berkeley.
UVA isn't even on the list.

What was your point?

That Michigan is a great school that is better than UVA. I don't think it is equal to or better than Berkeley though.
Also, using top 10 grad program rankings isn't all that relevant to what has primarily been an undergrad discussion (on a thread about undergrad rankings).

There is no doubt that Berkeley is better in most shared head to head departmental comparisons between the two schools. The difference is that Michigan offers a fuller spectrum of college disciplines and experiences. It is a more complete university on one campus than Berkeley. The fine and performing arts don’t take a back seat to the natural and social sciences. Health related education (medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, etc.) isn’t located at another semi-affiliated campus elsewhere. The excellence is spread out in all areas of endeavor, including athletics where it is strongly supported by enthusiastic students and alumni. There really is no other school in this country that does so many things as well and on such a grand scale.

I'm a big Michigan fan but it might as well be multiple campuses with the actual physical geography of it now. It is a valid point that the medical school and hospital are U of M rather than loosely affiliated via UCSF though.

Harvard and Stanford are the standard bearers in American higher ed but its true that even they don't have the breadth that Michigan does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA has slightly better SAT/ACT averages than UMich.

UVA: 1400-1540, 32-34
Umich; 1340-1520, 31-34

It's silly to claim Umich is definitely a better school. It's larger and colder for sure. The rest ...

Shall we bring up all the rankings where Michigan beats UVA? Like. in. every. single. one. This discussion is about school rankings, specifically at USNWR.

List of schools ranked by number of graduate programs ranked in the top 10, which shows the clear UVA advantage over Michigan . . . oops

Public and Private Universities With the Most Top 10 Graduate Schools, Programs and Specialties in the New 2023-24 U.S. News Rankings

Rank University Number of Top 10 Rankings
1 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 59
1 University of California, Berkeley 59
3 Stanford University 56
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 52
5 Harvard University 45
6 Columbia University 41
7 University of Texas at Austin 38
8 Princeton University 31
9 University of California–Los Angeles 29
10 University of Chicago 28
11 University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign 27
12 University of Pennsylvania 26
13 Duke University 25
13 California Institute of Technology 25
15 New York University 24
15 University of Washington 24

The above illustrates what truly separates Berkeley and Michigan from the rest of our nation’s public universities.

We shouldn't get too carried away though. Michigan isn't UVA but it also isn't Berkeley.

In this metric, Michigan = Berkeley.
UVA isn't even on the list.

What was your point?

That Michigan is a great school that is better than UVA. I don't think it is equal to or better than Berkeley though.
Also, using top 10 grad program rankings isn't all that relevant to what has primarily been an undergrad discussion (on a thread about undergrad rankings).

There is no doubt that Berkeley is better in most shared head to head departmental comparisons between the two schools. The difference is that Michigan offers a fuller spectrum of college disciplines and experiences. It is a more complete university on one campus than Berkeley. The fine and performing arts don’t take a back seat to the natural and social sciences. Health related education (medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, etc.) isn’t located at another semi-affiliated campus elsewhere. The excellence is spread out in all areas of endeavor, including athletics where it is strongly supported by enthusiastic students and alumni. There really is no other school in this country that does so many things as well and on such a grand scale.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Dartmouth has been wildly overrated for a while, so this new ranking isn’t surprising to me.

Top 15 all look about accurate to me.

True. Dartmouth is truly the lowest ivy. People think it's Cornell because Cornell stats gets dragged down because of its agriculture and hotel schools. But Dartmouth is hands down the easiest ivy to get into.

Dartmouth is #18 - so lowest ranked Ivy by far

Once again I ask what evidence to you have to make that determination? I don't think you have any.

So the evidence of the fact that it is over-rated is the fact that it is currently the lowest rated Ivy?

Circular reasoning at best, but IMHO very faulty reasoning regardless.

Where would it be ranked if it didn't play sportsball against HYP?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA has slightly better SAT/ACT averages than UMich.

UVA: 1400-1540, 32-34
Umich; 1340-1520, 31-34

It's silly to claim Umich is definitely a better school. It's larger and colder for sure. The rest ...

Shall we bring up all the rankings where Michigan beats UVA? Like. in. every. single. one. This discussion is about school rankings, specifically at USNWR.

List of schools ranked by number of graduate programs ranked in the top 10, which shows the clear UVA advantage over Michigan . . . oops

Public and Private Universities With the Most Top 10 Graduate Schools, Programs and Specialties in the New 2023-24 U.S. News Rankings

Rank University Number of Top 10 Rankings
1 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 59
1 University of California, Berkeley 59
3 Stanford University 56
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 52
5 Harvard University 45
6 Columbia University 41
7 University of Texas at Austin 38
8 Princeton University 31
9 University of California–Los Angeles 29
10 University of Chicago 28
11 University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign 27
12 University of Pennsylvania 26
13 Duke University 25
13 California Institute of Technology 25
15 New York University 24
15 University of Washington 24

The above illustrates what truly separates Berkeley and Michigan from the rest of our nation’s public universities.

We shouldn't get too carried away though. Michigan isn't UVA but it also isn't Berkeley.

In this metric, Michigan = Berkeley.
UVA isn't even on the list.

What was your point?

That Michigan is a great school that is better than UVA. I don't think it is equal to or better than Berkeley though.
Also, using top 10 grad program rankings isn't all that relevant to what has primarily been an undergrad discussion (on a thread about undergrad rankings).

There is no doubt that Berkeley is better in most shared head to head departmental comparisons between the two schools. The difference is that Michigan offers a fuller spectrum of college disciplines and experiences. It is a more complete university on one campus than Berkeley. The fine and performing arts don’t take a back seat to the natural and social sciences. Health related education (medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, etc.) isn’t located at another semi-affiliated campus elsewhere. The excellence is spread out in all areas of endeavor, including athletics where it is strongly supported by enthusiastic students and alumni. There really is no other school in this country that does so many things as well and on such a grand scale.

I'm a big Michigan fan but it might as well be multiple campuses with the actual physical geography of it now. It is a valid point that the medical school and hospital are U of M rather than loosely affiliated via UCSF though.

Harvard and Stanford are the standard bearers in American higher ed but its true that even they don't have the breadth that Michigan does.

Anonymous wrote:

Dartmouth has been wildly overrated for a while, so this new ranking isn’t surprising to me.

Top 15 all look about accurate to me.

True. Dartmouth is truly the lowest ivy. People think it's Cornell because Cornell stats gets dragged down because of its agriculture and hotel schools. But Dartmouth is hands down the easiest ivy to get into.

Dartmouth is #18 - so lowest ranked Ivy by far

Once again I ask what evidence to you have to make that determination? I don't think you have any.

So the evidence of the fact that it is over-rated is the fact that it is currently the lowest rated Ivy?

Circular reasoning at best, but IMHO very faulty reasoning regardless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless they’re a legacy, your kid isn’t getting in to Dartmouth or Cornell or Harvard.

What do you think is the actual percentage of legacy students in the undergraduate class of an Ivy League school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prestige isn’t much of a motivator in the state of Michigan. There are a few upscale suburbs & a few upscale private schools where more than a handful of people care about college prestige. The vast majority of students are perfectly content to go to Michigan State, Central Michigan, Wayne State, and so on. For the past decade, a “hot” college in Michigan has been Grand Valley State University, which has over 25,000 students. Probably none of the students there picked it due to anything resembling prestige.

In other words, this isn’t a state where all bright students, or even all valedictorians, aspire to attend U of Michigan. They don’t DISlike it, they just think other colleges suit their needs just fine. Most people tend to see U of Michigan as a big place with a famous football team, with an abundance of left-leaning New Yorkers (not exactly a group everybody in the state is dying to hang out with).

So, those who dismiss U of Michigan due to its acceptance percentage are ignorant of its limited appeal in-state. Most people in the state would be baffled as to why anybody would see ANY college as a source of personal prestige, & why people several states away are obsessing over that big school over in Ann Arbor.

+1

The UMich boosters are mostly out of state people who couldn't get into many fine schools in or near their home states whether it's north east or California, and have to settle in a state that locals don't really like them that much.

And yet the school is still ranked higher than any university in DC or Virginia. I’ll give you Johns Hopkins for MD.

US News ranking is not exact math. A few spots up or down is not statistically significant.