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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]My 19yo ds is into the red pill. I have let him run his mouth about it to see how far down the hole he has gone. Most of it is about politics/economic structure (matrix) but it has also given him significant motivation to work hard and take care of himself - almost like a guide for what it is to be a "high value man." I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows how I feel about Andrew Tate.

Now, if I were dating a man in his 40s or whatever who referred to anything re Red Pill or used the words OP said he did, I would be out of there immediately. [/quote]

You believe you're being smart and cagey, letting him "run his mouth" so you can gauge how far his thinking goes. But you're actually being naive (a term I feel sure will make you furious, but...you are naive.) Why? "I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows...." etc. What you have "heard" means exactly nothing. You have no idea what he's reading online, what he's writing in posts, what is inside his head. Just because you haven't heard comments you think are clearly misogynist, that does not mean he isn't engaging with others you don't know, and isn't buying every idea they're selling. He's your little boy and knows not to spew red pill misogyny in front of mom; that does not mean he isn't absorbing and internalizing it. But you seem to think it's good enough that you haven't heard it and he knows how you feel about ONE commentator. If you don't actually dig into what he thinks and tell him in no uncertain terms he's wrong, you have abdicated your role as a mother of a young man who is going to end up just another red piller, treating women...the way red pill men do.

And you even find the silver lining! He's working hard and taking care of himself to become a "high value man." The fact you present that as a kind of positive is baffling. Men can, and do, work hard and take care of themselves without the inspiration of this particular way of thinking. You sound desperate to find some kind of "up side" to your son's descent into this way of thinking. Well, he'll be buff, at least. [/quote]

DP. Lay off. There’s no one proven way to respond. You seem more interested in forcing a mother to condemn and write off her son, than in what it would take to actually educate him and persuade him. I personally believe that the less taboo you make this stuff, the better. If this PP totally polarizes the matter, do you think that will help?[/quote]

Condemn and write off? No.

Speak up clearly and unequivocally, calling out this red pill insanity, being clear that she can love him but also will not tolerate certain things? Yes.

Strange that you don't see the difference.[/quote]

Not tolerate what? Ideas and beliefs he has? She can make clear she disagrees but saying “I will not tolerate your beliefs!” is a really juvenile way to go about engaging with someone. [/quote]

DP. Wut? You think she should tolerate misogyny?

No wonder this country is going down the sheeter. [/quote]

This specific exchange is in response to a mom w a 19 year old DS and rather than shut him down, she walks a line so that she can have a window into what he is thinking and experiencing. She’s not “tolerating misogyny” nor is her DS making misogynistic statements. She’s insightful enough to know that if he does have misogynistic thoughts and beliefs, he would likely filter them in front of her. IMO, she’s being a thoughtful parent of her young adult son. She knows that lecturing him, and judging him will shut down lines of communication and give her zero opportunity to know what’s going on with him.[/quote]

She's still being naive. She still has no idea how deeply he has or hasn't internalized the messages he's hearing.

It's strange the you think her only option other than merely listening and "having a window" is for her to "lecture and judge" him. There is a third option: She could treat him like the adult he supposedly is, and talk to him openly and frankly about why, as not just mom but as a woman, she knows this ideology is problematic at best and vile at worst. But nope, she's going to watch and wait so she doesn't alienate him. She doesn't have to lecture and alienate him but I don't see that she's truly engaging him either. [/quote]

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