Reply to That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think the PP's comparison to drunken driving is apt. Someone who kills a person while driving drunk may not be an evil human being or a risk to others generally speaking. But most of us would agree that being intoxicated doesn't absolve you of responsibility for any harm done while you're behind the wheel.

On that basis, it seems like the Stanford guy should be held responsible for any and all crimes he committed while intoxicated, even if he's unlikely to do anything like that ever again and even if it was the alcohol that impaired his judgment.

But I agree with some of the PPs about the responsibility of the woman in this situation. Not legal responsibility of course, but personal responsibility. Her impaired judgment played a huge role in what happened to her, and her choices caused that impaired judgment. (As opposed to someone who is drugged without their knowledge or someone who is mentally impaired.)

Anyone who gets hit by a bus is a victim, and deserves sympathy as well as justice. But if you were high or drunk out of your mind and wandering in the middle of the street, you are partially responsible for what has happened to you. Getting blackout drunk isn't the same thing as wearing a short skirt.

I say that as someone who did a lot of stupid things in college, and I look at this woman and think there but for the grace of God....Hopefully all our kids, both boys and girls, will look at this story and take the lesson that binge drinking is a ticket to terrible, terrible situations.[/quote]

This is disgusting and ignorant.  I don't think anybody would agree that it was a great idea for her to be blackout drunk.  But that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped.  The problem here is not that she got drunk, it's that this guy thought he could rape her.  Rape is not okay.  Ever.  It's not excused.  Ever.  It's illegal.  Just because she was drunk does not then mean she should be raped.  She was a victim, you idiot.  If she's supposed to know better by not getting so drunk, why should he not know better than to commit a crime?  Rape is rape.  It's illegal.  Doesn't matter what the victim was doing.  Period.  She was raped.  Illegally.  Because rape is illegal.  I'm trying to get the point across by saying this multiple ways, but I don't think you'll get it anyway.[/quote]

No one said she *deserved* to be raped. Yes, obviously rape is wrong. But she chose to drink excessively and put herself in a vulnerable position. She has to at least take responsibility for that. It's more than a "bad idea" - it's being irresponsible with her own personal safety. 
[/quote]

She chose to drink a lot.  But she didn't put herself in a "vulnerable situation," unless you are calling THE ENTIRE WORLD a vulnerable situation.  Women get raped drunk, sober, in their homes, in churches, on streets, at parties, in libraries, at sporting events, on public transportation, etc., etc., etc.  Where, exactly, would you like us to go?[/quote]

Nothing vulnerable about getting black out drunk and then actually passing out?

Sorry - are we talking about all rapes that have ever happened or just this one? Maybe you should start a general rape post if you want to discuss all rapes that have ever happened.

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She was sexually assaulted.  Not raped. Not murdered.  Not kidnapped.  She was sexually assaulted.  [/quote]

His felony charges did not include rape, but he definitely, [i]definitely[/i] meets the federal definition of rape. Hence why people keep (correctly) calling him a rapist.[/quote]

He is not a convicted rapist though. And because Emily Doe is such a poor witness it is not clear that at least some of what happened that night was not consensual.  We don't know.  I think the Swedes saw this guy dry humping her while she was passed out.  That's what they got him for.[/quote]

They "got him" for digitally penetrating an unconscious woman.  We don't know, but the jury who heard all the evidence decided that, beyond a reasonable doubt, he sexually assaulted an unconscious woman.  The jury who heard all the evidence determined that she did not consent to what he did to her.   You can split hairs about whether that's rape, if you feel that's helpful.

Sure, drinking to excess is a bad idea.  I intend to tell my children that drinking too much can cause you both to make bad choices and to be more vulnerable to the bad choices of others.

But all these people concerned that the victim is taking an inadequate amount of responsibility for drinking too much are assholes.  What more punishment does she need?  Things you should take responsibility for if you drink too much: your hangover, anything you did while drunk.  Things you should not take responsibility for: being the victim of an intentional crime.

She is NOT responsible for what happened to her.  She is NOT to blame for what happened to her.  The only person who made the decision to sexually assault another person was Brock Turner.  The only person who is responsible for the crime is Brock Turner.  The only person who is to blame is Brock Turner.  She could have been passed out in the middle of the street, and she would not have been raped but for the presence of a rapist.  [/quote]

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