Anonymous wrote:If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party, I'm going to talk to her about making better decisions in the future.

If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party and gets raped, I'm going to tell her it's not her fault and place 100% blame on the rapist.

I think it's how we'd all want our daughters treated, so why not support this young woman the same way.

Anonymous wrote:Brock Turner would have raped her even if she had been unconscious from a health related illness.

CNN just announced he is appealing the sentence.

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Anonymous wrote:I think the PP's comparison to drunken driving is apt. Someone who kills a person while driving drunk may not be an evil human being or a risk to others generally speaking. But most of us would agree that being intoxicated doesn't absolve you of responsibility for any harm done while you're behind the wheel.

On that basis, it seems like the Stanford guy should be held responsible for any and all crimes he committed while intoxicated, even if he's unlikely to do anything like that ever again and even if it was the alcohol that impaired his judgment.

But I agree with some of the PPs about the responsibility of the woman in this situation. Not legal responsibility of course, but personal responsibility. Her impaired judgment played a huge role in what happened to her, and her choices caused that impaired judgment. (As opposed to someone who is drugged without their knowledge or someone who is mentally impaired.)

Anyone who gets hit by a bus is a victim, and deserves sympathy as well as justice. But if you were high or drunk out of your mind and wandering in the middle of the street, you are partially responsible for what has happened to you. Getting blackout drunk isn't the same thing as wearing a short skirt.

I say that as someone who did a lot of stupid things in college, and I look at this woman and think there but for the grace of God....Hopefully all our kids, both boys and girls, will look at this story and take the lesson that binge drinking is a ticket to terrible, terrible situations.

This is disgusting and ignorant. I don't think anybody would agree that it was a great idea for her to be blackout drunk. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped. The problem here is not that she got drunk, it's that this guy thought he could rape her. Rape is not okay. Ever. It's not excused. Ever. It's illegal. Just because she was drunk does not then mean she should be raped. She was a victim, you idiot. If she's supposed to know better by not getting so drunk, why should he not know better than to commit a crime? Rape is rape. It's illegal. Doesn't matter what the victim was doing. Period. She was raped. Illegally. Because rape is illegal. I'm trying to get the point across by saying this multiple ways, but I don't think you'll get it anyway.

No one said she *deserved* to be raped. Yes, obviously rape is wrong. But she chose to drink excessively and put herself in a vulnerable position. She has to at least take responsibility for that. It's more than a "bad idea" - it's being irresponsible with her own personal safety.

She chose to drink a lot. But she didn't put herself in a "vulnerable situation," unless you are calling THE ENTIRE WORLD a vulnerable situation. Women get raped drunk, sober, in their homes, in churches, on streets, at parties, in libraries, at sporting events, on public transportation, etc., etc., etc. Where, exactly, would you like us to go?

She passed out dead drunk behind a freakin' dumpster outside on a public street with a strange not so nice guy nearby. Do not candy coat just how serious her poor judgement was.

The PP doesn't seem to think women should take any precautions ever.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying whether or not women "take precautions" has nothing to do with any kind of culpability discussion when it comes to rape.

Who said it did?

Lock you car doors. Don't get black out drunk. Lessons learned!

How about some responsibility on the part of the people committing the crimes? How about don't rape?

Uh. Rape, sexual assault is not allowed. Who the hell is telling men that it is o.k. to rape? No one. Good guys (the Swedes) may very well have prevented this guy from doing even worse things to this woman.

Ironically, this woman was saved and her assailant brought to justice by MEN.

Uh. Yeah. My point was simply to the PPs saying things like "lock your car doors. Don't get black out drunk" Implying if you don't do those things, then you're asking to be raped.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think the PP's comparison to drunken driving is apt. Someone who kills a person while driving drunk may not be an evil human being or a risk to others generally speaking. But most of us would agree that being intoxicated doesn't absolve you of responsibility for any harm done while you're behind the wheel.

On that basis, it seems like the Stanford guy should be held responsible for any and all crimes he committed while intoxicated, even if he's unlikely to do anything like that ever again and even if it was the alcohol that impaired his judgment.

But I agree with some of the PPs about the responsibility of the woman in this situation. Not legal responsibility of course, but personal responsibility. Her impaired judgment played a huge role in what happened to her, and her choices caused that impaired judgment. (As opposed to someone who is drugged without their knowledge or someone who is mentally impaired.)

Anyone who gets hit by a bus is a victim, and deserves sympathy as well as justice. But if you were high or drunk out of your mind and wandering in the middle of the street, you are partially responsible for what has happened to you. Getting blackout drunk isn't the same thing as wearing a short skirt.

I say that as someone who did a lot of stupid things in college, and I look at this woman and think there but for the grace of God....Hopefully all our kids, both boys and girls, will look at this story and take the lesson that binge drinking is a ticket to terrible, terrible situations.

This is disgusting and ignorant. I don't think anybody would agree that it was a great idea for her to be blackout drunk. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped. The problem here is not that she got drunk, it's that this guy thought he could rape her. Rape is not okay. Ever. It's not excused. Ever. It's illegal. Just because she was drunk does not then mean she should be raped. She was a victim, you idiot. If she's supposed to know better by not getting so drunk, why should he not know better than to commit a crime? Rape is rape. It's illegal. Doesn't matter what the victim was doing. Period. She was raped. Illegally. Because rape is illegal. I'm trying to get the point across by saying this multiple ways, but I don't think you'll get it anyway.

No one said she *deserved* to be raped. Yes, obviously rape is wrong. But she chose to drink excessively and put herself in a vulnerable position. She has to at least take responsibility for that. It's more than a "bad idea" - it's being irresponsible with her own personal safety.

She chose to drink a lot. But she didn't put herself in a "vulnerable situation," unless you are calling THE ENTIRE WORLD a vulnerable situation. Women get raped drunk, sober, in their homes, in churches, on streets, at parties, in libraries, at sporting events, on public transportation, etc., etc., etc. Where, exactly, would you like us to go?

Nothing vulnerable about getting black out drunk and then actually passing out?

Sorry - are we talking about all rapes that have ever happened or just this one? Maybe you should start a general rape post if you want to discuss all rapes that have ever happened.

She was sexually assaulted. Not raped. Not murdered. Not kidnapped. She was sexually assaulted.

His felony charges did not include rape, but he definitely, definitely meets the federal definition of rape. Hence why people keep (correctly) calling him a rapist.

He is not a convicted rapist though. And because Emily Doe is such a poor witness it is not clear that at least some of what happened that night was not consensual. We don't know. I think the Swedes saw this guy dry humping her while she was passed out. That's what they got him for.

They "got him" for digitally penetrating an unconscious woman. We don't know, but the jury who heard all the evidence decided that, beyond a reasonable doubt, he sexually assaulted an unconscious woman. The jury who heard all the evidence determined that she did not consent to what he did to her. You can split hairs about whether that's rape, if you feel that's helpful.

Sure, drinking to excess is a bad idea. I intend to tell my children that drinking too much can cause you both to make bad choices and to be more vulnerable to the bad choices of others.

But all these people concerned that the victim is taking an inadequate amount of responsibility for drinking too much are assholes. What more punishment does she need? Things you should take responsibility for if you drink too much: your hangover, anything you did while drunk. Things you should not take responsibility for: being the victim of an intentional crime.

She is NOT responsible for what happened to her. She is NOT to blame for what happened to her. The only person who made the decision to sexually assault another person was Brock Turner. The only person who is responsible for the crime is Brock Turner. The only person who is to blame is Brock Turner. She could have been passed out in the middle of the street, and she would not have been raped but for the presence of a rapist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing, my bitches. Lots of women report rapes. A far fewer amount than are reported are ever a) pursued by law enforcement and b) tried in a courtroom, due to lack of evidence or witnesses or reliable testimony from either side. This case:

A. Was prosecuted
B. Be went to trial
C. Went to unanimous jury conviction

Which means,

A: Emily Doe's accusation of rape was credible and provable
B. Emily Doe's accusation and recollections were backed up by eyewitness statements on part of the Swedes
C. A preponderance of evidence proved Brock Turner DID RAPE her

Given these facts it is incredible any of you would come here and the to say she was not raped. *You don't get to do that.* law enforcement said she was, a DA said she was, two witnesses say she was, a jury said she was, AND SHE SAID SHE WAS! So it is not up to you to say it was "a hookup gone wrong" or her lying about giving consent.

Emily Doe wrote a very powerful letter. In it, she absolved herself of all responsibility for her actions from the moment she chose to drink a bunch of shots. Good for her, if it helps her move on.

Yes, she was raped, and the rapist was caught and convicted. She's upset that his apology did not fully take responsibility for his actions. Her letter didn't do that, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing, my bitches. Lots of women report rapes. A far fewer amount than are reported are ever a) pursued by law enforcement and b) tried in a courtroom, due to lack of evidence or witnesses or reliable testimony from either side. This case:

A. Was prosecuted
B. Be went to trial
C. Went to unanimous jury conviction

Which means,

A: Emily Doe's accusation of rape was credible and provable
B. Emily Doe's accusation and recollections were backed up by eyewitness statements on part of the Swedes
C. A preponderance of evidence proved Brock Turner DID RAPE her

Given these facts it is incredible any of you would come here and the to say she was not raped. *You don't get to do that.* law enforcement said she was, a DA said she was, two witnesses say she was, a jury said she was, AND SHE SAID SHE WAS! So it is not up to you to say it was "a hookup gone wrong" or her lying about giving consent.

Emily Doe wrote a very powerful letter. In it, she absolved herself of all responsibility for her actions from the moment she chose to drink a bunch of shots. Good for her, if it helps her move on.

Yes, she was raped, and the rapist was caught and convicted. She's upset that his apology did not fully take responsibility for his actions. Her letter didn't do that, either.

I'm sorry, but the fact that she was raped does make her the victim here, you know that right? The rape isn't justified just because she was drunk, you know that right?

He's a convicted felon. Once he's served his time, paid his debt to society, then that's it. He doesn't have to apologize, although it's nice. By serving his sentence, he has taken responsibility for his crime.

You're right that the victim doesn't have to do anything. Most of them are not ruined for life, though, as some PPs have said. It's a bit insulting to think that of her.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think the PP's comparison to drunken driving is apt. Someone who kills a person while driving drunk may not be an evil human being or a risk to others generally speaking. But most of us would agree that being intoxicated doesn't absolve you of responsibility for any harm done while you're behind the wheel.

On that basis, it seems like the Stanford guy should be held responsible for any and all crimes he committed while intoxicated, even if he's unlikely to do anything like that ever again and even if it was the alcohol that impaired his judgment.

But I agree with some of the PPs about the responsibility of the woman in this situation. Not legal responsibility of course, but personal responsibility. Her impaired judgment played a huge role in what happened to her, and her choices caused that impaired judgment. (As opposed to someone who is drugged without their knowledge or someone who is mentally impaired.)

Anyone who gets hit by a bus is a victim, and deserves sympathy as well as justice. But if you were high or drunk out of your mind and wandering in the middle of the street, you are partially responsible for what has happened to you. Getting blackout drunk isn't the same thing as wearing a short skirt.

I say that as someone who did a lot of stupid things in college, and I look at this woman and think there but for the grace of God....Hopefully all our kids, both boys and girls, will look at this story and take the lesson that binge drinking is a ticket to terrible, terrible situations.

This is disgusting and ignorant. I don't think anybody would agree that it was a great idea for her to be blackout drunk. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped. The problem here is not that she got drunk, it's that this guy thought he could rape her. Rape is not okay. Ever. It's not excused. Ever. It's illegal. Just because she was drunk does not then mean she should be raped. She was a victim, you idiot. If she's supposed to know better by not getting so drunk, why should he not know better than to commit a crime? Rape is rape. It's illegal. Doesn't matter what the victim was doing. Period. She was raped. Illegally. Because rape is illegal. I'm trying to get the point across by saying this multiple ways, but I don't think you'll get it anyway.

No one said she *deserved* to be raped. Yes, obviously rape is wrong. But she chose to drink excessively and put herself in a vulnerable position. She has to at least take responsibility for that. It's more than a "bad idea" - it's being irresponsible with her own personal safety.

She chose to drink a lot. But she didn't put herself in a "vulnerable situation," unless you are calling THE ENTIRE WORLD a vulnerable situation. Women get raped drunk, sober, in their homes, in churches, on streets, at parties, in libraries, at sporting events, on public transportation, etc., etc., etc. Where, exactly, would you like us to go?

She passed out dead drunk behind a freakin' dumpster outside on a public street with a strange not so nice guy nearby. Do not candy coat just how serious her poor judgement was.

The PP doesn't seem to think women should take any precautions ever.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying whether or not women "take precautions" has nothing to do with any kind of culpability discussion when it comes to rape.

Who said it did?

Lock you car doors. Don't get black out drunk. Lessons learned!

How about some responsibility on the part of the people committing the crimes? How about don't rape?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing, my bitches. Lots of women report rapes. A far fewer amount than are reported are ever a) pursued by law enforcement and b) tried in a courtroom, due to lack of evidence or witnesses or reliable testimony from either side. This case:

A. Was prosecuted
B. Be went to trial
C. Went to unanimous jury conviction

Which means,

A: Emily Doe's accusation of rape was credible and provable
B. Emily Doe's accusation and recollections were backed up by eyewitness statements on part of the Swedes
C. A preponderance of evidence proved Brock Turner DID RAPE her

Given these facts it is incredible any of you would come here and the to say she was not raped. *You don't get to do that.* law enforcement said she was, a DA said she was, two witnesses say she was, a jury said she was, AND SHE SAID SHE WAS! So it is not up to you to say it was "a hookup gone wrong" or her lying about giving consent.

Emily Doe wrote a very powerful letter. In it, she absolved herself of all responsibility for her actions from the moment she chose to drink a bunch of shots. Good for her, if it helps her move on.

Yes, she was raped, and the rapist was caught and convicted. She's upset that his apology did not fully take responsibility for his actions. Her letter didn't do that, either.

I'm sorry, but the fact that she was raped does make her the victim here, you know that right? The rape isn't justified just because she was drunk, you know that right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the PP's comparison to drunken driving is apt. Someone who kills a person while driving drunk may not be an evil human being or a risk to others generally speaking. But most of us would agree that being intoxicated doesn't absolve you of responsibility for any harm done while you're behind the wheel.

On that basis, it seems like the Stanford guy should be held responsible for any and all crimes he committed while intoxicated, even if he's unlikely to do anything like that ever again and even if it was the alcohol that impaired his judgment.

But I agree with some of the PPs about the responsibility of the woman in this situation. Not legal responsibility of course, but personal responsibility. Her impaired judgment played a huge role in what happened to her, and her choices caused that impaired judgment. (As opposed to someone who is drugged without their knowledge or someone who is mentally impaired.)

Anyone who gets hit by a bus is a victim, and deserves sympathy as well as justice. But if you were high or drunk out of your mind and wandering in the middle of the street, you are partially responsible for what has happened to you. Getting blackout drunk isn't the same thing as wearing a short skirt.

I say that as someone who did a lot of stupid things in college, and I look at this woman and think there but for the grace of God....Hopefully all our kids, both boys and girls, will look at this story and take the lesson that binge drinking is a ticket to terrible, terrible situations.

This is disgusting and ignorant. I don't think anybody would agree that it was a great idea for her to be blackout drunk. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped. The problem here is not that she got drunk, it's that this guy thought he could rape her. Rape is not okay. Ever. It's not excused. Ever. It's illegal. Just because she was drunk does not then mean she should be raped. She was a victim, you idiot. If she's supposed to know better by not getting so drunk, why should he not know better than to commit a crime? Rape is rape. It's illegal. Doesn't matter what the victim was doing. Period. She was raped. Illegally. Because rape is illegal. I'm trying to get the point across by saying this multiple ways, but I don't think you'll get it anyway.

No one said she *deserved* to be raped. Yes, obviously rape is wrong. But she chose to drink excessively and put herself in a vulnerable position. She has to at least take responsibility for that. It's more than a "bad idea" - it's being irresponsible with her own personal safety.

She chose to drink a lot. But she didn't put herself in a "vulnerable situation," unless you are calling THE ENTIRE WORLD a vulnerable situation. Women get raped drunk, sober, in their homes, in churches, on streets, at parties, in libraries, at sporting events, on public transportation, etc., etc., etc. Where, exactly, would you like us to go?

Nothing vulnerable about getting black out drunk and then actually passing out?

Sorry - are we talking about all rapes that have ever happened or just this one? Maybe you should start a general rape post if you want to discuss all rapes that have ever happened.

She was sexually assaulted. Not raped. Not murdered. Not kidnapped. She was sexually assaulted.

His felony charges did not include rape, but he definitely, definitely meets the federal definition of rape. Hence why people keep (correctly) calling him a rapist.

He is not a convicted rapist though. And because Emily Doe is such a poor witness it is not clear that at least some of what happened that night was not consensual. We don't know. I think the Swedes saw this guy dry humping her while she was passed out. That's what they got him for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So when you are black out drunk you can still be conscious, right? And perhaps even "consenting"? And maybe even if a guy was sheltered and hadn't had much to drink before he might not handle alcohol well and be able to distinguish that the girl is *that* drunk.

hmm. i don't know. I think she was unconscious. there are times when people say they blacked out (don't remember) but they were still up and about (people tell them the next day what they did but they don't remember it) I don't think that's the case here.

Yes, she was blackout drunk for some amount of time before passing out. She doesn't remember any of it, but before she became unconscious, she was walking, talking, etc. From the outside, there's no way to tell.

Bullshit, not many of my friends get black out drunk- but when they did, you can tell... it is so obvious- they are completely incoherent and can barely walk most of the time, can barely keep their eyes open... prime, easy target for this prick

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing, my bitches. Lots of women report rapes. A far fewer amount than are reported are ever a) pursued by law enforcement and b) tried in a courtroom, due to lack of evidence or witnesses or reliable testimony from either side. This case:

A. Was prosecuted
B. Be went to trial
C. Went to unanimous jury conviction

Which means,

A: Emily Doe's accusation of rape was credible and provable
B. Emily Doe's accusation and recollections were backed up by eyewitness statements on part of the Swedes
C. A preponderance of evidence proved Brock Turner DID RAPE her

Given these facts it is incredible any of you would come here and the to say she was not raped. *You don't get to do that.* law enforcement said she was, a DA said she was, two witnesses say she was, a jury said she was, AND SHE SAID SHE WAS! So it is not up to you to say it was "a hookup gone wrong" or her lying about giving consent.

Emily Doe wrote a very powerful letter. In it, she absolved herself of all responsibility for her actions from the moment she chose to drink a bunch of shots. Good for her, if it helps her move on.

Yes, she was raped, and the rapist was caught and convicted. She's upset that his apology did not fully take responsibility for his actions. Her letter didn't do that, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would agree with the "plea for leniency" if he had apologized to the victim and showed any remorse.

He did apologize. We just don't like his apology.

He did?