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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]So many of these comments are about using consumer goods/experiences as class signifiers. I think you are missing some obvious errors with this.

Middle class families, by definition, have some wiggle room. Meaning they can make some choices that might enable them to afford things that you normally associate with UMC or rich people. So you can't always ascertain someone's class status just looking at consumer goods or something like vacations, because you don't understand HOW they afforded that. If you don't know what they gave up in order to get it, or whether it was bought with cash or on credit, or whether it was new or used, or whether it was purchased or gifted, then consumer goods/vacations are actually not a great signifier for class status.

A lot of the stuff people on this thread are saying are "out of reach" for MC, I know a lot of MC how have them. But in most cases they are compromising elsewhere in a way that's harder to see. [/quote]

I think you’re missing a nuance as well. A middle class person can go on say, a Bahamas vacation on credit. But they cannot *afford* it. Thus the debt. [/quote]

Oh, I'm not missing that. My point is that you can not, as an outsider, look at that person and say "Well they went to the Bahamas last year, so they can't be middle class!" Which is the mistake a lot of people seem to make. Or conversely "Well my middle class sibling went to the Bahamas last year, so all middle class people can afford the Bahamas."

But also, a middle class person might be able to actually afford the Bahamas. Not every year, but as a for instance: I decided I wanted to celebrate my 45th birthday with a family trip to an all inclusive resort in the Caribbean. I shifted some of my savings into a ladder CD to keep it fairly liquid but earn a little better interest, and also instituted a couple other cost savings (doing really cheap lunches, asking DH to forgo birthday gifts for me so we could put the money toward the trip, bought no new clothes for two years) to build that fund up. And then we took a nice vacation to a resort we would never have normally gone too. It was so worth it! And paid for in cash without changing retirement or college savings practices.

The point is: you can't look at someone's consumer activity and assume you know whether they are middle class. The peopel on here saying that a middle class family simply CANNOT go to Europe are just not thinking very creatively. Of course they can. It just takes diligence, sacrifice, and a little luck (MC people always have to worry about a job loss or health emergency derailing them financially).[/quote]

People here are saying the MC can afford things so they can justify that their 300k+ HHI is "only" UMC. There has never been a complaint on DCUM that a "low" earning family "falsely" described themselves as UMC. The complaints are when out of touch UC/rich people describe themselves as UMC and then don't understand why others cannot afford retirement and college.[/quote]

But this is why using people's consumer choices to define middle class doesn't work.

Being middle class (or any class) is about the choices you HAVE, not the decisions you make.

A middle class person can have a nice vacation, but they will have to forgo something else. If you don't know what it took to afford the vacation, you can't decide what class they are in on that basis.

And the people who are claiming they are MC when they are actually UMC/UC using consumer choices are making the same mistake. They want to say "well I drive an 8 year old Subaru, so I'm MC." But they have the option of buying a $60k car tomorrow if they want to, they just choose not to.

It's the choice you are offered that determines your class, not necessarily the choice you make that is visible to others. Middle class people have more choices than working class people but less than upper class people. They have middling choices, but still choices. And the "middle class squeeze" is when rising costs in housing, healthcare, college, and food, shrink their choices. All classes experience this, but it's more acute for MC people. Poor people had so few choices to begin with -- they aren't lamenting the loss of their annual beach vacation to rising gas prices. And upper class people might feel a pinch, but still have so many choices that it's not that painful. But low prices make middle class peopel feel flush, and inflation makes them feel poor. It's not about what they have, it's about the choices they are presented with more than anything.[/quote]

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