Reply to If you are middle class (<150k HHI), how would things be different if you were rich (>400k HHI)

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I do think that middle class no longer refers to the middle of the income spectrum. Historically, in Europe the middle classes were people in the approx top 20% of the population. Just underneath the 1% who were primarily the aristocracy. The rest were the working classes, and then the outright poor.

When I consider the assumptions for a standard middle of the pack American middle class lifestyle, it means having a standard SFH, say 1800-2200 sqft, two cars that aren't junkers, one trip a year to a beach, some savings for rainy days and retirement, being able to help with college, going out to dinner once in a while - that's what people took for granted as a middle class life in the 1980s. The difference from the 1950s was that it could be had on one income in the 50s, in the 80s it was taking two incomes but it was still a middle class life.

Today? I'd think 150k is really the threshold when you can do this for a family. A family of four living off 80k in most metro area is not middle class, but working class.

There's been a lot of talk about the hollowing out of the middle classes and growing income disparities, and this is a big part of it. [/quote]

Your idea of middle class is skewed.  Middle class don’t take yearly beach vacations, two newer cars and larger homes.  [/quote]

It's probably not as warped as a poor family thinking they're still middle class.

In what society is a yearly family vacation not a middle class thing to do? Or driving two basic cars? Or where a 2,000 sqft house is a larger house?

A PP above commented that being middle class meant you had more than just addressing your basic needs.

I think a pretty good gauge of what a smack dab in the middle middle class HHI should be is a pair of married schoolteachers. In Howard County, two teachers with 15 years' teaching experience (so early 40s, prime family age) will have a joint HHI of between 150-160, because they will make between 75 to 80k each. 150k is very much the "real life" middle class HHI for a family in most metro areas in order to be able to afford a modest house, run two decent cars, and have a decent life that is a bit more than just addressing your basic needs. This is corroborated by that the national average price for a SFH is 360kish, which is what a family making 150k can afford. If that's the average price for a single family house, then it does strongly suggest the average smack dab in the middle class income is 150kish. [/quote]

That’s not middle class.  Upper middle maybe but middle class no.  What you are describing is upper middle class.[/quote]

Very few people would call married teachers upper middle class. Or a 360k house an upper middle class house. In Howard, for example, that buys you a simple townhouse. The hypothetical teacher couple could also chose to commute from Carroll County where the 360k can get them a very modest SFH. But in neither case are they upper middle class.

What's happened is that the overton window for a middle class has shifted upwards. You're trapping yourself into thinking that middle class has to be right in the middle, aka median income. Keep in mind a median income is disproportionately skewed by singles, couples without children, retirees and all that. For a functioning family unit of two working parents and children it's a very different story.

That's why the average price for a SFH nationally is 360k, because that represents the real middle class family HHI. Otherwise you are arguing that the middle classes can't afford SFH.[/quote]

You need to get out of the DC mindset, but yes, its not middle class.  It sucks money does not go as far in this area, but its not middle class.[/quote]

So everyone is rich apparently. [/quote]

We live in a 1000 square foot house we bought for around $400K.  Middle class cannot afford our house.  Be real.[/quote]

I don't know where you are but in the Baltimore suburbs 350k is about average for a standard older detached SFH with decent schools in ordinary areas. Those houses are usually between 1500-1800 sqft. That's very middle class. Are there cheaper housing? Sure. The people who buy them are working to lower middle class. Same for more expensive housing for the upper middle classes. From what I can tell that's fairly representative of middle America / flyover.

If the *national* average for a SFH is 360k, it's pointless arguing the middle classes can't afford a 400k house in the DMV, which is an entirely different ballgame. I suspect you're hung up on thinking working classes are the middle classes when they are really just working class or maybe lower middle class. [/quote]

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