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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Those of you sitting in judgment are pathetic.

Unless you are there to raise those children, provide for them, and support policies that provide the things you aren't willing to do (parental leave, healthcare for children, reasonably priced health care, etc.) you have no right -NONE- to sit in judgment of someone else who has chosen a path you would not.  There are LOADS of kids languishing in foster care.  Put your money where your vicious mouths are and get involved with those kids who are here and who have no consistent source of love and little advantages.

Is a heartbeat alone life? Maybe. But, it's not a human viable of living outside the womb at 6 weeks.  And, that life is second to the woman.  Period.  It it regrettable, yes. But, again, you folks are generally the ones who also object to free and ready access to health care b/c it offends your delicate sensitivities.  You're hypocrites.  You're sanctimonious.  You're judgmental.  You're disgusting.[/quote]

this doesn't make any sense.  It is like saying the lives of the poor are worthless.  If you are not middle class, then your life isn't worth living?  You can not believe this.  It is not better to not have lived at all than to have lived hungry and poor.[/quote]

And what you seem to be saying is that the lives of women are worth less than the lives of the embryos in their uterus and that the state gets to force them to be hostages to those embryos.

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[b]Your statement describing being hostage to an embryo is so very different from my perspective. I can see why we're miles apart on the abortion issue[/b].[/quote]

Congratulations on never having had a difficult pregnancy, or one that threatened your job, your education, or your financial future.  Not everyone can be so lucky.

[b]I posted on the Republicans are mean thread that it seemed to me conservatives lacked the ability to imagine the difficult situations others find themselves in and therefore can't empathize very well.[/b]  This is a prime example.  I love my kids more than anything, tried for years to get pregnant and cherished each of my pregnancies. But I can imagine the terror someone could feel at facing an unwanted pregnancy or one that isn't going to bring a live, healthy child into the world and would never, ever deny that person the right to make her own decisions regarding her future.[/quote]

I am an Independent that leans conservative and think you are correct that Republicans are less likely to put themselves in the shoes of others less fortunate. They do see things in more black and white while liberals see more shades of gray. That doesn't mean they don't care about other people though. I have a pretty evenly divided mix of liberal and conservative friends and the conservatives donate far more money, time and resources than my liberal friends. That's anecdotal of course but in my experience conservatives aren't cold-hearted uncharitable people. Going back to the abortion issue, a conservative sees abortion as murder. Plain and simple. So while all these old male legislators may have no idea what it is like to be a woman with an unwanted pregnancy, they also can't get past the fact that they see the act as murder. I see both sides that's why it is such a tough call. What I do adamantly believe in though is easy access to birth control. I don't think it's right for Republicans to be anti-abortion and anti-birth control at the same time. [/quote]

I'm the poster who said I don't view pregnancy as being hostage to an embryo. On a personal basis, I do know the feelings that can arise from having an unplanned pregnancy and am not unsympathetic to women who are in tough circumstances. It's just that I also hold the view that women should protect the growing life that they helped conceive. [b] I do very much agree with your recommendation re easy access to birth control for all men and women[/b].  [/quote]

You do know, don't you?, that the logical extension of the idea that life must be protected from the moment of conception means that all of the most effective forms of birth control are considered by pro-lifers to potentially cause abortion -- all birth control pills, all iuds, all hormonal contraception, all emergency contraception and mifepristone (abortion medication).   Any hormonally-based contraception is considered to cause "chemical abortion".  Although there is no conclusive scientific proof that hormonal contraception causes the death of fertilized eggs, pro-lifers see it as abortion and think these forms of birth control should be illegal as well.

So, really, the only permissible pro-life forms of birth control are barrier methods, spermicides, natural/withdrawal or abstinence.  All of which (except abstinence) have 10-20% failure rates or higher.

So, in this context, I'm not really sure how valuable "easy access to birth control" is when really it means "access to the least effective forms of contraception only."

As a parent who had an accidental pregnancy while using a diaphragm and spermicide (about 80% efficacy -- if only I had known!), I am very concerned about my daughter's future contraceptive options.   
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I do not see why you include the pill as those that we lose when we go to the "logical conclusion".  some nut cases do do that, but it doesn't make sense.[/quote]

"Some nut cases" are writing legislation.[/quote]

Just because some nut cases are writing legislation doesn't mean we should lie.  The pill doesn't abort fetuses.  If we start to lie, then people start to believe 1) that it is okay to lie or 2) that they can not trust anything you say because they caught you in a lie.[/quote]

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