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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Let's have an honest discussion. I think spanking is wrong. I think it can damage kids and cause distrust. More broadly, i believe (and i think some studies have shown) that demonstrating the resolution of problems, or enforcement of boundaries / one's wishes greatly contributes to a world where our impulses are to shove, punch, bully, murder, execute, and nuke one another into submission. At the same time, I can't even with these people who say EVERY child will respond well to positive reinforcement only and that anyone whose child doesn't respond isn't doing it right. i know spanking is wrong, and yet i don't have a foolproof substitute! 
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Why would it damage kids and cause distrust any more than any other punishment? I'm up for a civil discussion. My assessment is that it all depends on how it's explained and implemented.[/quote]

Yay for civility!

I don't think that every spanking causes lasting, irreversable, major damage to children but i'd be willing to bet that the way most people are doing it does some damage, the way most people are doing it and the way they THINK they are doing it is probably a good deal different, and also that even the most benign instance is still carrying the capability to cause some damage. Why? Well, there are probably numerous studies that lay out why it does damage, but to me the duty of a parent to protect child from harm, and the need for the child to 100 percent feel physically safe with the parent is sacrosanct. Every time you spank, you're eroding that trust just a little bit, even temporarily. While there are certainly lots of ways to undo trust that do not involve parents striking and intentionally inflicting physical pain on the child, I don't think these are okay, either. I think there is probably a continuum where on one end you get the parent fluttering around trying to lovingly redirect where there is minimal harm done in the immediate sense (but depending on the circumstance if the kid isn't really getting any discipline and boundaries some lifelong consequences there too) to severe emotional abuse or physical abuse being on the other side of the continuum. I'm talking about child abuse there. Spanking, to me, has more in common with the abuse because at the end of the day, no matter how well intentioned, it is the trusted parent figure that is intentionally causing physical pain, there is a great risk of a breach opening up.

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But why is moderate and controlled physical pain somehow more detrimental than the emotional pain that you cause by any other punishment, such as putting a child in timeout (which can be physical in itself) and denying the opportunity for interaction with others?[/quote]

PP here so I'll just reply to these replies separately.

I wouldn't necessarily say that spanking is the only or worst way to cause damage. I only said that I think it causes damage, and it does. And again I think there are studies that back this up, but if you're spanking you probably don't believe in the studies anyway so I'll save that argument for someone who it would appeal to more. Since we're talking person to person, my personal feeling again is that there is a continuum for the potential to damage a child. Calling a child "fatso" perpetually is WAY worse, to my mind, than a one time slap in the face, but both are awful things to do to a child. So, take spanking (physical pain) vs. banishment (time out) and I think both are probably sub-optimal but in terms of breaking trust, the parent hurting the child intentionally (even if it's "controlled and moderate") is more damaging in most cases. But i'll be honest that I also do not really like time outs. I'm up front about the fact that I don't see a really perfect alternative. I think most of us are probably doing a little unintentional damage to our children, but to me, eliminating spanking, which I *know* causes harm, is something I know better than to do, so I do not do it and don't like to see others do it. [/quote]

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