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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
You are not even reading what I wrote at this point. I don't judge them more harshly than other groups that are exclusive. This is an AMA forum about being jewish. I just believe a lot of jews are shallowly joining behind their heritage and over the years I've lost respect for their clannish behavior. On the prayers I said that I felt uncomfortable about someone being so open in a public space with their religion but at least I understood them a bit after getting to know them and seeing how fervently they believed in their religion. You say you were mistreated by Christians and Catholics. Do you have any examples? As some examples on my behalf, I grew up where the [b]jewish kids would take some of my more open jewish friends away to tell them secrets[/b], none of which had anything to do with jewish religion or culture. They would talk about which families their parents preferred, which jewish boy they wanted to marry, [b]they would comment how none of the jewish boys were open to me because I wasn't jewish.[/b] Up to 3rd grade some of them brought in matzoh, but then that ended and most didn't celebrate any holidays. They said this, not me. Even in their houses such as for passover. I thought perhaps this was just the way the kids were in my town, but then I went off to a highly selective college and during the first year there was a sorority rush. There were two known jewish sororities in addition to many sororities that were about half jewish, one with a reputation of having many jewish American princesses and one with more devout and nicer jews. I had gotten to know some of the nicer jewish people in the 2nd sorority. I went into rush believing I probably would not be picked for either sorority, but thought perhaps I could get to know these nicer jews better and could possibly enjoy being in that sorority. They each had pledge classes of 40 women plus. At the first sorority, I was immediately asked my name, where I lived, and my major.[b] The person made a face at me [/b]and then took me around to about ten other people introducing me with just that information over and over in a derogatory way. No one asked me any other questions and eventually the person I was with moved on to talk to someone else leaving me alone. At the nicer sorority I was in a group of 3 sisters and 3 pledges and the 3 sisters asked the other two jewish pledges questions and basically ignored me although they were nice and offered me food. I don't think in these cases, I was being the antisemetic one. They were being antichristian. The saddest part was that they had the power to reject me anyway, but used their 15 minutes to make me feel uncomfortable instead of at least trying to be friendly.[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

You will probably never undestand ethnic Judaism, and I don't think those of us here answering questions in a religious forum can really speak for ethnic Jews who are atheists anyway.   But your level of obsession is odd. Indeed, if you had such negative experiences with "clannishness" why did you rush a mostly Jewish sorority (by the way my dad belonged to a Jewish frat, but that was back when most non-Jewish frats excluded Jews, and he was not an atheist, though not particularly pious either) [/quote]

You are right I don't understand ethnic Judaism which is why I posed the question. I have tried all my life even taking jewish classes in school however and still have many jewish friends. I just think they're a bit shallow in this regard. The OP said she wasn't religious, so I don't know why I was being so out of line. No one has given me any reason for understanding ethnic jews who aren't religious which was my only question to begin with.[/quote]

I think people have tried to give you lots of ideas and information, but have met with an argumentative, accusatory, hostile, and aggrieved tone.   That is not conducive to learning.   Nor to getting along with people, whether "clannish" or not. [/quote]

They have not given any specifics on why this bond is so important. They have accused me of being anti-semetic and saying I don't understand their culture but then don't offer any clarification. If for instance an atheist jew decides to have their children attend jewish preschool and jewish summer camp despite not believing in god or observing religious holidays, the parent hangs out with only jewish friends, and they teach their children to be friends with only jews, what is it all for? What is the bond they have besides religion in a past cultural way that deserves my respect? Certain food dishes they might still make? [b]How do these types of bonds require exclusion of everyone else[/b]?[/quote]

They don't. So there are several options: (1) the people you are trying to hang out with are jerks, which has nothing to do with their religion; (2) they are not really trying to exclude people to this extent, you just interpret it that way because you have a weird obsession and/or persecution complex; or (3) they just don't like you.

[/quote]

Honestly, I am going with door #3 after reading all of PPs posts.[/quote]

NP.

I don't think that any of us can be the "representatives of our culture" here, as you seem to want us to be. But after reading the responses you're getting, and so many people telling you that this isn't their experiences as Jewish people, shows that this might have been your personal experiences, and not how Jews treat non-Jews across the board. I have certainly met Jews who have left others out of their social groups, but it wasn't for religious reasons. They were mostly friends since childhood who had problems letting others in. It was socially awkward, yes, but not because they were Jewish; I was one of the people they were leaving out, and this was in our shared Sunday School!

In my (Reform Jewish) experience, the most exclusionary Jews are from Orthodox sects, who looked upon my family as non-Jews because we drove on Shabbat. The majority of my Jewish friends are either Conservative or Reform, and--believe it or not--the majority of my friends in general aren't Jewish at all. Atheist and agnostic Jews may send their children to Sunday School to learn about our shared cultural history, similar to my Irish friends who send their kids to Irish step dance classes. There are even secular-humanistic congregations, where people learn about the foundations of the culture and the history behind holidays. I used to teach at one such Hebrew School, and it was fascinating! But atheist and agnostic Jews by and large aren't going to send their children to Jewish schools or camps where religion is a big part of the day.

In general, people may choose to group with people of a similar background, whether cultural, ethnic, religious, or something else. This isn't specific to Jewish people. But again, in my experience, the more atheist or agnostic a Jewish person is, the more open they are to the cultural/ethnic/etc experiences of others, and want to expose their children to the same. I know in my circle of friends, religion and ethnic background don't really matter at all.[/quote]

Thank you for a nicer tone. I believe most of the responses I got were from one person who lived in VA and was religious, so I did not think I was getting responses from multiple people and honestly wanted to hear from OP who said she was basically a secular humanist born to a jewish family. Unfortunately even if I got responses about jewish openness to other cultures from four different people, it doesn't really make up for the 500 plus "reform jewish" people I encountered in my life who were exclusive and yet wouldn't even know basic stuff like whether a certain day was a jewish holiday or not. I'm glad to hear there are more people of jewish origin who are open to being friends with other ethnicities. I think I was just disheartened to read some of the recent posts on this website where jewish parents were basically blatantly saying it was ok for them to be exclusive to non-jews because of their similar culture or whatever. With a new generation I was hopeful that people would be more open and welcoming.[/quote]

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