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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
You are not even reading what I wrote at this point. I don't judge them more harshly than other groups that are exclusive. This is an AMA forum about being jewish. I just believe a lot of jews are shallowly joining behind their heritage and over the years I've lost respect for their clannish behavior. On the prayers I said that I felt uncomfortable about someone being so open in a public space with their religion but at least I understood them a bit after getting to know them and seeing how fervently they believed in their religion. You say you were mistreated by Christians and Catholics. Do you have any examples? As some examples on my behalf, I grew up where the [b]jewish kids would take some of my more open jewish friends away to tell them secrets[/b], none of which had anything to do with jewish religion or culture. They would talk about which families their parents preferred, which jewish boy they wanted to marry, [b]they would comment how none of the jewish boys were open to me because I wasn't jewish.[/b] Up to 3rd grade some of them brought in matzoh, but then that ended and most didn't celebrate any holidays. They said this, not me. Even in their houses such as for passover. I thought perhaps this was just the way the kids were in my town, but then I went off to a highly selective college and during the first year there was a sorority rush. There were two known jewish sororities in addition to many sororities that were about half jewish, one with a reputation of having many jewish American princesses and one with more devout and nicer jews. I had gotten to know some of the nicer jewish people in the 2nd sorority. I went into rush believing I probably would not be picked for either sorority, but thought perhaps I could get to know these nicer jews better and could possibly enjoy being in that sorority. They each had pledge classes of 40 women plus. At the first sorority, I was immediately asked my name, where I lived, and my major.[b] The person made a face at me [/b]and then took me around to about ten other people introducing me with just that information over and over in a derogatory way. No one asked me any other questions and eventually the person I was with moved on to talk to someone else leaving me alone. At the nicer sorority I was in a group of 3 sisters and 3 pledges and the 3 sisters asked the other two jewish pledges questions and basically ignored me although they were nice and offered me food. I don't think in these cases, I was being the antisemetic one. They were being antichristian. The saddest part was that they had the power to reject me anyway, but used their 15 minutes to make me feel uncomfortable instead of at least trying to be friendly.[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

You will probably never undestand ethnic Judaism, and I don't think those of us here answering questions in a religious forum can really speak for ethnic Jews who are atheists anyway.   But your level of obsession is odd. Indeed, if you had such negative experiences with "clannishness" why did you rush a mostly Jewish sorority (by the way my dad belonged to a Jewish frat, but that was back when most non-Jewish frats excluded Jews, and he was not an atheist, though not particularly pious either) [/quote]

You are right I don't understand ethnic Judaism which is why I posed the question. I have tried all my life even taking jewish classes in school however and still have many jewish friends. I just think they're a bit shallow in this regard. The OP said she wasn't religious, so I don't know why I was being so out of line. No one has given me any reason for understanding ethnic jews who aren't religious which was my only question to begin with.[/quote]

I think people have tried to give you lots of ideas and information, but have met with an argumentative, accusatory, hostile, and aggrieved tone.   That is not conducive to learning.   Nor to getting along with people, whether "clannish" or not. [/quote]

They have not given any specifics on why this bond is so important. They have accused me of being anti-semetic and saying I don't understand their culture but then don't offer any clarification. If for instance an atheist jew decides to have their children attend jewish preschool and jewish summer camp despite not believing in god or observing religious holidays, the parent hangs out with only jewish friends, and they teach their children to be friends with only jews, what is it all for? What is the bond they have besides religion in a past cultural way that deserves my respect? Certain food dishes they might still make? [b]How do these types of bonds require exclusion of everyone else[/b]?[/quote]

They don't. So there are several options: (1) the people you are trying to hang out with are jerks, which has nothing to do with their religion; (2) they are not really trying to exclude people to this extent, you just interpret it that way because you have a weird obsession and/or persecution complex; or (3) they just don't like you.

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And they're able to "not like me" in a non-partisan way with less than 1 minute of introduction? How about #1 instead of #3 which they would probably agree with the 2nd half of. I actually don't think they're jerks as much as they are being misled by their parents. They were taught to act this way. If I'm such a jerk why does David Silverman agree with me that they're adhering to a group they aren't really part of anymore per the article which you asked me to post on the 50-60% of jews who don't believe in god? What do you think of his opinions?

The late Christopher Hitchens once observed that a great number of the most influential atheists throughout history, from Marx to Einstein, were Jews: “I think it’s a Jewish duty, since the curse of monotheism was first inflicted on us by the Jewish people,” he told Jeffrey Goldberg in one of his final interviews. “It’s very good that it should be repudiated by them to a great extent.” Silverman disagrees, but only slightly. “He used the word wrong,” he said. “They are not Jews, they are children of Jews. Just as I am not a Jew, I am a child of Jews.”

Though he doubted God’s existence since childhood, Silverman went to Hebrew school and was bar mitzvahed according to his parents’ wishes, an event that he points to as the defining moment of his life: The day 13-year-old David stood before his family and congregation and read his Torah portion was the day he became a confirmed atheist. “I got up in front of everyone in my universe and I lied to all of them,” he said. “I am a good speaker now and I was a good speaker then, and I lied. And everyone applauded and gave me money.

He notes that much of what is defined as Jewish culture, such as music or food, is simply Judaism-the-religion “taking credit” for a geographically specific regional culture—Ashkenazic culture primarily being simply Eastern European, for instance. The only thing world Jewry has in common is the Torah, he says, and as a religious doctrine, the Torah cannot be reconciled with atheistic values.

Cousins pointed to the recent Pew study on U.S. Jews, which found that 60 percent of American Jews believe that Judaism is mainly a matter of ancestry, culture, and values, rather than of religious observance.

Silverman aims to change that. Last month, he made his case about the incompatibility of Judaism and atheism to a crowd of about 75 secular Jews in Phoenix in a speech titled “I’m an Atheist and So Are You,” urging his audience to follow his lead and abandon the term “Jew.”

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