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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about 
[twitter]https://x.com/acyn/status/1775693795092287709?s=46&t=kf1qYlCXQnKgUhJWEIu2vg[/twitter][/quote]

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.[/quote]
The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.[/quote]

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception.  It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.[/quote]

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor? [/quote]

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.[/quote]

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother".  But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s  They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.[/quote]

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement.  If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all.  And that’s what they believe.[/quote]

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.[/quote]

You need to look at a map.  There is nothing minority about the forced birthers.  Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.[/quote]

This has to do with the primary process where candidates are only competing among their party. I think ranked choice primaries could help filter out the crazies on both sides. Gerrymandering has made this worse with candidates that are unrepresentative of the voters. [/quote]
BoThSiDeS[/quote]
suck[/quote]

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