Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

You need to look at a map. There is nothing minority about the forced birthers. Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.

In most cases, the minority passed anti-abortion laws.

When the voters are allowed to choose, they choose reproductive rights. Every. Single. Time.

"When voters are allowed to choose" being operative.

If people keep.on electing conservative Catholic/ evangelical republicans, voters aren't going to be allowed to choose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

You need to look at a map. There is nothing minority about the forced birthers. Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.

In most cases, the minority passed anti-abortion laws.

When the voters are allowed to choose, they choose reproductive rights. Every. Single. Time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

Sorry, but if you elect people who believe that an embryo is a person, then you are as bad as they are. You have watched them create draconian rules for women, ban abortions, control women's healthcare, and try to eliminate medical abortions. You have watched them criminalize abortions and doctors who may have to decide how to handle a pregnant woman's health and watched them refuse to provide medical care to women because they are afraid of the penalties that are being assigned to doctors who provide abortion care. You have seen them force raped minors to carry pregnancies to birth. And so many other attrocities. If you vote for anyone who voted for these policies, then you bear as much blame as they do.

The way to not be treated like a forced birther is to only vote for candidates that will expressly protect a woman's right to life-saving healthcare, that protect the right for women and their doctors to make the medical decisions that are right for each situation without imposing external religious restrictions in a case where religion has no place.

Vote against forced birthers if you don't want to be considered a forced birther.

+1

“The findings contained in ‘Criminalized Care: How Louisiana’s Abortion Bans Endanger Patients and Clinicians’ are alarming. The research shows how Louisiana’s abortion bans violate federal law meant to protect patient access to emergency care, disregard evidence-based public health guidance, degrade long-standing medical ethical standards, and, worst of all, deny basic human rights to Louisianans seeking reproductive health care in their state. The bans’ narrow and ill-defined exceptions create confusion, uncertainty, and fear for both pregnant patients and clinicians, who face significant professional, civil, and criminal penalties for providing the patient-centered and compassionate care they were trained for and could legally offer before Roe v. Wade was overturned.

This research reveals that Louisiana’s abortion bans erode clinician’s ability to use their best medical judgment to treat patients, cause delays and denials of abortion care, postpone prenatal care, and create dual loyalty for clinicians who must navigate their duty to patients and fear of criminalization. The report’s findings also underscore how the bans disproportionately harm historically marginalized communities and groups in the state. Based on these findings, the report outlines specific recommendations to state and federal governments, Louisiana hospitals and health care professionals, medical associations, and international human rights mechanisms on how to address these harms.”
Criminalized Care: How Louisiana’s Abortion Bans Endanger Patients and Clinicians
https://www.liftlouisiana.org/criminalizedcare

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

Sorry, but if you elect people who believe that an embryo is a person, then you are as bad as they are. You have watched them create draconian rules for women, ban abortions, control women's healthcare, and try to eliminate medical abortions. You have watched them criminalize abortions and doctors who may have to decide how to handle a pregnant woman's health and watched them refuse to provide medical care to women because they are afraid of the penalties that are being assigned to doctors who provide abortion care. You have seen them force raped minors to carry pregnancies to birth. And so many other attrocities. If you vote for anyone who voted for these policies, then you bear as much blame as they do.

The way to not be treated like a forced birther is to only vote for candidates that will expressly protect a woman's right to life-saving healthcare, that protect the right for women and their doctors to make the medical decisions that are right for each situation without imposing external religious restrictions in a case where religion has no place.

Vote against forced birthers if you don't want to be considered a forced birther.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

You need to look at a map. There is nothing minority about the forced birthers. Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.

This has to do with the primary process where candidates are only competing among their party. I think ranked choice primaries could help filter out the crazies on both sides. Gerrymandering has made this worse with candidates that are unrepresentative of the voters.

BoThSiDeS

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

You need to look at a map. There is nothing minority about the forced birthers. Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.

This has to do with the primary process where candidates are only competing among their party. I think ranked choice primaries could help filter out the crazies on both sides. Gerrymandering has made this worse with candidates that are unrepresentative of the voters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

You need to look at a map. There is nothing minority about the forced birthers. Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ICYMI, Youngkin just vetoed a bill that would protect women who come to VA for an abortion and their doctors from extradition:

Late Friday night, Youngkin announced that he vetoed two nearly identical bills aimed at protecting out-of-state women who come to Virginia for a legal abortion and the health-care professionals who provide that abortion. The measures would prevent them from being extradited to another state where the procedure is illegal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/06/virginia-budget-youngkin-veto-deadline/

Oh and if he vetoes the budget our schools may close down.

And Youngkin was supposed to be the new Republican Party. The new moderate normal Republican Party.
The conservatives are off the rails and have totally lost the plot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

You need to look at a map. There is nothing minority about the forced birthers. Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.

In most cases, the minority passed anti-abortion laws.

When the voters are allowed to choose, they choose reproductive rights. Every. Single. Time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.

You need to look at a map. There is nothing minority about the forced birthers. Vast areas of this country are now firmly in abortion ban forced birther territory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The Dobbs decision of 15 weeks” what is he even talking about

I think he means that Dobbs would have allowed Rs to make 15 week bans, but they went too far and it's biting them in the butt. But maybe that's not what he means.

Really this whole conversation would be so different right now if Rs had in fact just put in place a bunch of 15 week bans with exceptions for life of the mother, serious fetal issues, and cases of rape and incest. I think this issue would have largely died down by now.

But I guess give it to them, they were true believers and took their shot.

The problem is that "the life of the mother" is subjective to Rs, and they feel that a lawyer should decide that rather than a doctor.

Look at the TX case.

Rs have created a death panel of lawyers.

Agree. I think the country would be ok with a 15 week ban and a "health of the mother" exception. It is otherwise impossible to know when the brink of death occurs.

And what do you say to the mother who finds out at 16 weeks that the fetus has a catastrophic abnormally incompatible with life and does not wish to carry it to term?

What do you say to the 13 year old child whose pregnancy is first discovered at 16 weeks? You going to force her to do l&d at 9 months?

And who gets to decide when the health of the mother allows an abortion after 15 weeks? You are going to make a woman wait in agony while lawyers and judges decide her fate, rather than her doctor?

We're not saying a 15 week ban is a great idea which will leave no victims. We're saying that if the Rs had enacted a whole bunch of 15 week bans in red states, they would probably be doing much better electorally right now. A lot of people would be fine with red states having 15 week bans. I think plenty of people would have been ok with a national 15 week ban, too, so long as abortion rights were protected before 15 weeks.

Anyway, it's all moot because that isn't what Rs did, and f them anyway those woman hating monsters.

Im the original PP that said "15 weeks is ok" and this is exactly what I meant. I think if the Rs messaged, they could have had strong support for a 15 week national ban if they had an exception for the "health of the mother" and not the "life of the mother". But now they are in this ridiculous place where they are leaving doctors forcing women to the brink of death, shrugging when 13 year old children have babies, and trying to outlaw IVF, and the majority of the population does not want any of this..s They should be ashamed they do not see abortion is healthcare.

The Rs could never do this because it is fundamentally at odds with the religious beliefs that drive the anti-abortion movement. If you think an embryo is the same as a person, then the only answer is no abortions at all. And that’s what they believe.

A minority portion of GOP voters believe an embryo is the same as person. The evangelical influence is getting smaller with each passing generation and they'll soon be close to irrelevant. In fact, over 2/3rds of Americans were fine with abortions law as it was before Roe was overturned. Within this majority of Americans that accepted Roe as it was and assumed it to be settled law, there are some disagreements on specific legality time frames and applicable exceptions but there is common ground and we aren't as divided on this issue as our politicians make us out to be. In other words, very few of us are actually forced birthers or baby killers but our politicians and tainted journalism makes it seem as though everyone on the other "side" is a forced birther or baby killer.