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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?  
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?[/quote]
I’m no expert (and some here actually are; I barely follow this stuff) but yes, I know it could be worse. The thing is that Putin is terrible. For two quick examples, his invasion of Ukraine and his treatment of Alexei Navalny.

Also my weakly hoping for Putin to be deposed isn’t really going to move the needle anywhere. I just wish Putin were gone and that some of the promise of democracy that Russia had in the early 90s could be realized.[/quote]
Russia lived a hungry life under that promise and they won’t forget it. They are completely disillusioned about the West and democracy (didn’t turn out well for them). I don’t think there is any hope now. It will always be some level of autocracy [/quote]

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It’s as if people have no contact or Russian knowledge

There was a good foreign affairs piece recently on how Russia’s future lies to the east.

Russia needs to stop looking west as they have done for 400 years.

The reform Russia needs is to see the east as equals and not through a misguided racial superiority lens — 400 years of chasing European acceptance as been for naught.

Democracy and being a “Western European country” is not for Russia and deep down even the normal Russian person doesn’t want this.

PP you are replying to. I think Russia needs to be pragmatic. They can very well work with the west if they realize that the west is prone to outsmart them, that they will never join the first world club (that they already know actually) and the west is their class enemy. Which does not mean the literal adversary! Just that their interests are exactly the opposite, so they need to keep the diplomacy going . Russia really sucks at diplomacy. There are very few young, westernized diplomats. They also suck at PR and marketing. Pragmatism is the name of the game for them, not trying to fight absolutely stupid wars or make ridiculous demands or even more ridiculous concessions to the west like it was before Putin. [/quote]

I'm not a politician nor a European/Eurasia/Asia expert by any stretch of the imagination. But sometimes the experts become entrenched with technicalities in their respective specialties. That can lead to thinking that is interesting to contemplate but maybe not too smart.

I don't think Europe has a problem with Russia being part of Europe; I think Europe has a problem with a Russia that is forever governed by maniacs and thugs. Russia's instability threatens what can be a tenuous peace in the rest of Europe. Russian's fall to communism led to communism threatening peace in the rest of Europe. The Russian revolution that overthrew its last czar finally pulled Russia out of a medieval structure, but that change was immediately usurped by yet another oppressive form of government. Subsequently Russia has not had the chance to enjoy the fruits of democracy that most of Europe today takes for granted. That is the problem Europe has with Russia.

Russia would be extraordinarily foolish to look towards the East and China. The racial/cultural/religious/etc divides will never allow Russia to operate on equal footing with that part of the world. John Lennon sang a pretty song, Imagine, but in the real world these differences would be insurmountable. The only thing Russia would achieve would be to become subservient to its Asian overlords.[/quote]

I'm Eurasian (one european parent, one asian parent). The mixing of cultures works well for some people, PP ;-)
Having said that, I agree that since the "West" 's greatest export is democracy, that any nuclear country that is not a democracy threatens its ideals in the most fundamental way.

Russia, which has a ton of antiquated nuclear weapons, is the largest country in the world by far, has been unstable so many times in past 100 years, and has never had a truly democratic government...

... is felt to be an enormous threat by the west. The goal of NATO and associated countries is the long-term democratization of Russia. That's it. It's far-fetched, and perhaps won't happen in our lifetimes, but plenty of goals have been started by humans who knew they wouldn't live to see the final achievement. Notre Dame, the Paris Cathedral, took two centuries to complete. People are preparing to travel to Mars. Humans live in hope.
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