Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's an old saying, "don't spook the sheep."

Prigozhin did what he set out to do. The sheep are now in motion.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/freaked-russia-shocked-military-coup-121945733.html

You guys really need to read more of Lenin-Marxist theory books on Revolution...

Haha this didn’t age well! They are all back from dachas with their buckwheat by now.
Most didn’t even bother.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's an old saying, "don't spook the sheep."

Prigozhin did what he set out to do. The sheep are now in motion.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/freaked-russia-shocked-military-coup-121945733.html

You guys really need to read more of Lenin-Marxist theory books on Revolution...

Haha this didn’t age well! They are all back from dachas with their buckwheat by now.
Most didn’t even bother.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently the people were cheering the Wagner troops. Wonder why he stopped?

Because Prigo has no money. Someone ratted him out in St Petersburg and got hold of his hoard of cash that was all packed up ready to leave in vans. You can't take the Kremlin without money.

Somehow I'm betting that the owner of a global mercenary organization doesn't have all of his cash sitting in boxes in St. Petersburg. FFS he is making payroll in Africa.

Right. But 48M in St Petersburg is still a lot of bills he was planning to use right away, PP. Money in Africa can't get there fast enough.

My point wasn't that his money is IN Africa. But that he has to move money TO his mercenary groups regularly. He has a network of companies and he's been on sanctions lists since at least 2016, so he knows how to protect his wealth. His life is another matter.

Not so easy to just kill a man able to roll tanks up to Moscow.

Meh.

He might want to check first if his tea tastes like plutonium. And avoid walking past any windows on the 2nd floor or above.

Anyone can run Wagner.

And most of his troops in the Ukraine war just lost most of their enthusiasm.

Putin remains a master strategist.

How is he a master strategist if he just diminished his chances of winning in Ukraine even further? I believe Wagner was the best fighting unit?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UPDATE:

Belarus negotiated Prigozhin’s exile in Belarus. In exchange, all Wagner troops are “supposed” to sign crappy Russian .mil contracts for LESS pay.

And certainly more deadly assignments, as in: suicide missions. Payback is a you know what.

Word is: most Wagner troops are quietly going AWOL and heading home.

Putin did, however, learn who his friends are:

- Kyderov/ Chechen dictator: BEST NUMBER 1 FRIEND!

- Prigozhin: we are never, ever getting back together

- Kazakhstan: we were never really friends anyway

- Russian army: meh

- Belarus: do I have any other choice?

Rostov and most of the rest of Russia: meh

Some videos showed people angry at Wagner for putting their cities in danger of being shelled in order to get rid of them

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?

I’m no expert (and some here actually are; I barely follow this stuff) but yes, I know it could be worse. The thing is that Putin is terrible. For two quick examples, his invasion of Ukraine and his treatment of Alexei Navalny.

Also my weakly hoping for Putin to be deposed isn’t really going to move the needle anywhere. I just wish Putin were gone and that some of the promise of democracy that Russia had in the early 90s could be realized.

Russia lived a hungry life under that promise and they won’t forget it. They are completely disillusioned about the West and democracy (didn’t turn out well for them). I don’t think there is any hope now. It will always be some level of autocracy

💯

It’s as if people have no contact or Russian knowledge

There was a good foreign affairs piece recently on how Russia’s future lies to the east.

Russia needs to stop looking west as they have done for 400 years.

The reform Russia needs is to see the east as equals and not through a misguided racial superiority lens — 400 years of chasing European acceptance as been for naught.

Democracy and being a “Western European country” is not for Russia and deep down even the normal Russian person doesn’t want this.

PP you are replying to. I think Russia needs to be pragmatic. They can very well work with the west if they realize that the west is prone to outsmart them, that they will never join the first world club (that they already know actually) and the west is their class enemy. Which does not mean the literal adversary! Just that their interests are exactly the opposite, so they need to keep the diplomacy going . Russia really sucks at diplomacy. There are very few young, westernized diplomats. They also suck at PR and marketing. Pragmatism is the name of the game for them, not trying to fight absolutely stupid wars or make ridiculous demands or even more ridiculous concessions to the west like it was before Putin.

I'm not a politician nor a European/Eurasia/Asia expert by any stretch of the imagination. But sometimes the experts become entrenched with technicalities in their respective specialties. That can lead to thinking that is interesting to contemplate but maybe not too smart.

I don't think Europe has a problem with Russia being part of Europe; I think Europe has a problem with a Russia that is forever governed by maniacs and thugs. Russia's instability threatens what can be a tenuous peace in the rest of Europe. Russian's fall to communism led to communism threatening peace in the rest of Europe. The Russian revolution that overthrew its last czar finally pulled Russia out of a medieval structure, but that change was immediately usurped by yet another oppressive form of government. Subsequently Russia has not had the chance to enjoy the fruits of democracy that most of Europe today takes for granted. That is the problem Europe has with Russia.

Russia would be extraordinarily foolish to look towards the East and China. The racial/cultural/religious/etc divides will never allow Russia to operate on equal footing with that part of the world. John Lennon sang a pretty song, Imagine, but in the real world these differences would be insurmountable. The only thing Russia would achieve would be to become subservient to its Asian overlords.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fabulous news. Can't wait until multiple factions headed by various warlords have access to nukes.

Hey, poster who lives next to the pentagon, still blasé at the nuclear implications of this conflict?

We faced the same thing with the breakup of the Soviet Union, with missiles in so many republics. It's not without risk but we have dealt with this problem before.

DP. Except nobody believes the west and its guarantees anymore

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?

I’m no expert (and some here actually are; I barely follow this stuff) but yes, I know it could be worse. The thing is that Putin is terrible. For two quick examples, his invasion of Ukraine and his treatment of Alexei Navalny.

Also my weakly hoping for Putin to be deposed isn’t really going to move the needle anywhere. I just wish Putin were gone and that some of the promise of democracy that Russia had in the early 90s could be realized.

Russia lived a hungry life under that promise and they won’t forget it. They are completely disillusioned about the West and democracy (didn’t turn out well for them). I don’t think there is any hope now. It will always be some level of autocracy

💯

It’s as if people have no contact or Russian knowledge

There was a good foreign affairs piece recently on how Russia’s future lies to the east.

Russia needs to stop looking west as they have done for 400 years.

The reform Russia needs is to see the east as equals and not through a misguided racial superiority lens — 400 years of chasing European acceptance as been for naught.

Democracy and being a “Western European country” is not for Russia and deep down even the normal Russian person doesn’t want this.

PP you are replying to. I think Russia needs to be pragmatic. They can very well work with the west if they realize that the west is prone to outsmart them, that they will never join the first world club (that they already know actually) and the west is their class enemy. Which does not mean the literal adversary! Just that their interests are exactly the opposite, so they need to keep the diplomacy going . Russia really sucks at diplomacy. There are very few young, westernized diplomats. They also suck at PR and marketing. Pragmatism is the name of the game for them, not trying to fight absolutely stupid wars or make ridiculous demands or even more ridiculous concessions to the west like it was before Putin.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Eh. No. Putin is now shown he can't keep the country secure. He had to let an insurrectionist the FSB announced they would arrest slide. Can anyone on this blog claim they've ever heard the infallible, all-powerful Putin do such a thing before?

He lets people slide all the time. He operates like his former KGB and gets revenge long term.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fabulous news. Can't wait until multiple factions headed by various warlords have access to nukes.

Hey, poster who lives next to the pentagon, still blasé at the nuclear implications of this conflict?

We faced the same thing with the breakup of the Soviet Union, with missiles in so many republics. It's not without risk but we have dealt with this problem before.

Anonymous wrote:There's an old saying, "don't spook the sheep."

Prigozhin did what he set out to do. The sheep are now in motion.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/freaked-russia-shocked-military-coup-121945733.html

You guys really need to read more of Lenin-Marxist theory books on Revolution...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UPDATE:

Belarus negotiated Prigozhin’s exile in Belarus. In exchange, all Wagner troops are “supposed” to sign crappy Russian .mil contracts for LESS pay.

And certainly more deadly assignments, as in: suicide missions. Payback is a you know what.

Word is: most Wagner troops are quietly going AWOL and heading home.

Putin did, however, learn who his friends are:

- Kyderov/ Chechen dictator: BEST NUMBER 1 FRIEND!

- Prigozhin: we are never, ever getting back together

- Kazakhstan: we were never really friends anyway

- Russian army: meh

- Belarus: do I have any other choice?

Rostov and most of the rest of Russia: meh

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?

I’m no expert (and some here actually are; I barely follow this stuff) but yes, I know it could be worse. The thing is that Putin is terrible. For two quick examples, his invasion of Ukraine and his treatment of Alexei Navalny.

Also my weakly hoping for Putin to be deposed isn’t really going to move the needle anywhere. I just wish Putin were gone and that some of the promise of democracy that Russia had in the early 90s could be realized.

Russia lived a hungry life under that promise and they won’t forget it. They are completely disillusioned about the West and democracy (didn’t turn out well for them). I don’t think there is any hope now. It will always be some level of autocracy

💯

It’s as if people have no contact or Russian knowledge

There was a good foreign affairs piece recently on how Russia’s future lies to the east.

Russia needs to stop looking west as they have done for 400 years.

The reform Russia needs is to see the east as equals and not through a misguided racial superiority lens — 400 years of chasing European acceptance as been for naught.

Democracy and being a “Western European country” is not for Russia and deep down even the normal Russian person doesn’t want this.

Anonymous wrote:Russia was more calm about a literal warlord rolling up to moscow than Americans over j6

You tell me which country is more stable