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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Watching the video of those young Israeli hostages being handed over to the Red Cross in Gaza is interesting. Those young women are surrounded by a sea of jubilant Hamas militants all in green headbands and masks. Clearly, the IDF has a lot more work to do. Hamas isn't even close to being eliminated. Until Palestinians depose these extremists, I don't see how this war ever ends. [/quote]

Hamas is masterful at media manipulation, which is why you never saw any imagery of deceased Hamas combatants in Gaza, only women and children.  Hamas is only releasing hostages under the pressure of their losses, their staging of events like this notwithstanding.  If they were not on the verge of complete annihilation, the hostages would not be released.  As it is, 47K or so Palestinians are deceased, and Hamas gained no new territory, no new privileges, no separate country, and no respect.  [/quote]

That’s not the standard.[/quote]

So what has Hamas accomplished?  An opportunity for some new apartment buildings to be paid for with foreign aid?  The creation of new parking lots in Gaza?  An improvement is the business prospects for Gazan undertakers?  [/quote]

Dear Poster, I don't think this is the right question. I think it's less about what they were trying to accomplish and more about how desperate they felt to get the world to see their living conditions. [/quote]

So suicide was the path to that?  They couldn't invite CNN into Gaza to take a look around?  I hardly think publicity would be best achieved by invading Israel, killing, raping, and kidnapping.  Not to mention to cost in lives.  A peculiar choice for a course of action to achieve anything useful.   [/quote]

It's not a peculiar choice. Hamas was quite open for years about demanding Israel stop the settlements in the West Bank and return all Palestinian women and children from Israeli jail. Israel refused to listen and continued aggression in the West Bank knowing Hamas was not there. Cowardly Israel does not do the same run and gun grabs of people in the Gaza Strip where Hamas reside. Only in the WB and they continue to do so. The ironic tragedy is many Palestinians who lived in the West Bank moved to Gaza so their kids can be safer because of the non-existence of the IDF and settlers there, only for them to get caught up post 10/7.

I dont know why Israel acts like Hamas didnt telegraph their actions. They had bulldozers at the crossing for weeks prior to 10/7 and even sent written manifestos via the air  to the kibbutz residents telling them to get ready because they are coming. Netanyahu was also warned personally by Egypt that Hamas is planning an imminent attack.

Netanyahu wanted 10/7 to happen to avoid his corruption charges and getting impeached/going to jail.[/quote]

And yet, today Gaza has been demolished, Hamas emasculated, 47K Palestinians killed, and the hostages are being returned in a desperate attempt to save the skins of the terrorists still alive for the time being.  That's a useful message?  What was the message, exactly?  We don't like settlements and we're all willing to die to make our point?  Let's basically commit suicide to express our displeasure, that'll show the world how unhappy we are and will surely improve things for us?

And, you seem to be suggesting that Oct 7 is Israel's fault for not taking preemptive action in response the the signals you recite.  Apart from the optics and immorality of blaming the victim, I can just imagine the pro-Hamas outrage if the IDF had struck first, no matter how strategically or tactically sound such a move would have been if it were necessary to prevent Israeli casualties.

[/quote]

NP. Can’t tell if this blather is cynical propaganda or ignorance…

Hamas is stronger than ever.

Israel showed the world that it would go genocidal if the Americans supplied them with enough bombs. And the Israelis withheld food and water as well as attacked all the hospitals further increasing the slaughter.  So Israel now has substantially less support globally, even though their friend$ in the west pulled out all the stops to support them.

And 47k killed is almost certainly a very low ball estimate. I have been tutored by pros in the techniques of estimating mass killings, wars, and genocides and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the death toll wasn’t well over 100k. And to be clear those dead were almost entirely civilians.[/quote]

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