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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous] Who cares if a GS student is studying in the library.

I have no idea what your resentment is about, but the GS program is fine and no College student I have ever known has ever complained about GS students on campus; nor have I ever seen any literature anywhere about GS on the Columbia campus other than excellent reviews.

As an undergraduate I met veterans who opened my eyes about conflict in little-known parts of the world, a journalist, and a retired artist. Fantastic supplementary experiences which made m appreciate as a 21 year old  College junior what the world is like after college, and made me work even harder at the things in life which are important. They are a blessing to developing any undergraduate's world-view.

[/quote]

+1. Columbia offers a vastly different undergrad student experience for the 18-year-old College/SEAS student than that of Harvard or Princeton. It is partly because of its location in NYC that it is impossible to not meet people outside of the school, but the presence of GS exposes students to a completely different set of life experiences that would not be found in a typical student body. If a student believes that this would be beneficial for their academic and personal growth, then that's great. If one wants an insular environment with eating clubs in a suburban town, that's great as well. This is a difference of personal preference, and it is simply wrong to argue that one is better than the other. Let the kid who's applying decide.

USNWR rankings are by and large made for traditional high school students who are applying to college and their parents. If they include the lower SAT averages (think about context, GS adults won't go through the same prep that HS students would) or higher acceptance rates (mostly due to GS' self-selection as not many 26-year-olds would even think about going back to school), that would be misleading. The admissions statistics won't be accurate for the 18-year-olds that are applying to CC/SEAS. If the average SAT for CC/SEAS/GS is 1520 but for only CC/SEAS is 1540, that would be misleading. A student who got a 1520 may have taken the SAT again so that they would be at least above the mean, but combining GS would show inaccurate data for the person of interest: an 18-year-old applying to CC/SEAS, who is ineligible to apply to GS to begin with (and vice versa.)

There have been many claims made on this thread that GS students are inferior to the traditional 18-year-old matriculants, and that somehow they diminish the experience of CC/SEAS. First of all, I have heard only positive remarks about the presence of GS students from the College and Engineering students; if someone really wants to prove that College/Eng students hated GS students, then bring in some CC/Eng alumni that would actually say that, or the conversation won't even begin...

If you say that the GS students are less intelligent and bright than CC students, that is false. The one thing we have to remember about the admissions in these universities is that it's truly a holistic admissions method. An admission officer wouldn't expect the same types of awards, SAT scores, leadership positions, and other ECs from a low-income applicant from an undistinguished public school and a student from Exeter. Just as everything is contextualized in admissions, GS students should be held to a different standard; we don't expect 26-year-olds to attend an SAT summer intensive camp or compete for science research awards. Rather, they are adults who have diverse life experiences that are going back to school for various reasons: they had family issues that prevented them from attending college before, wanted to change careers and needed a college degree, are veterans, etc. Most if not all probably didn't even apply to CC/SEAS when they were 18 because their life circumstances were completely different. Also, their GPA average is higher than CC students; GS students are obviously capable of handling the rigor.

Anyone who bashes the GS program for letting nontraditional students take the same courses as traditional matriculants, or just bashes the GS students in general, should be aware that they are criticizing the opportunity for those who didn't have the privileges, or had an interruption in their academic careers, etc. to be given a second chance to pursue a true undergraduate education. That is a very snobbish thing to do; it is toxic and shouldn't be accepted nor encouraged. Not all 18-year-olds can focus on writing their supplemental essays for 20 schools, gain leadership positions in clubs, compete in speech and debate, or even have the option to go to college in the first place. If you oppose any institution or program that gives these people a chance to receive a true undergraduate education instead of throwing them into so-called extension schools that clearly have an inferior quality of education, then I am simply lost for words.[/quote]

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