Anonymous wrote:Harvard:

Harvard tells Asians 'You may wish that you weren't Asian.'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/harvard-racism-asian-resources-page-apology

Harvard is not going down the toilet. It's already in the toilet. First, the Jewish students and profs. Now the Asians.

Correct , Bodleian. The Bodelian Library, constructed between 1603-1616. Magnificent architecture. It was a delight to study there, and similarly, it was a delight to study at the Butler Library and at the Avery Architectural and Fine Arts Library at Columbia.

https://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/libraries/old-library

https://library.columbia.edu/libraries/butler.html

https://library.columbia.edu/libraries/avery.html

I made a typo during a quick type on a small keyboard.

My points remain as stated.

Harvard:

Harvard tells Asians 'You may wish that you weren't Asian.'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/harvard-racism-asian-resources-page-apology

I'm sure this student of yore has already decided and is attending somewhere since OP's post was April 2020.

Oxford's famous library is named Bodleian, not "Bodlian" lol.

Yes, Columbia has its own beautiful campus; and Morningside Heights, a residential part of Manhattan is just outside the campus. Upper middle class to wealthy ( on Riverside Drive), cosmopolitan, good restaurants and coffee /pizza/sushi shops. Very intellectually stimulating. You feel lifted intellectually when you arrive at Morningside heights and enter campus. Riverside Cathedral and Church of St. John the Divine are gorgeous gothic cathedrals, breathtaking. ( Google the images). St. John the Divine is apparently the largest cathedral in the world, and it has a biblical garden with peacocks walking freely about. Columbia has some relationships with these two cathedrals because they have been used in connection with either a few graduation ceremonies (St. John the Divine), and for community gatherings 9 Riverside Cathedral).

The Number 1 subway is just outside campus at 116thStreet and will take you anywhere in Manhattan. lincoln Center at 59th street is just maybe seven subway stops away - 12 minutes ride (?). The United Nations is maybe 30 minutes away on two subways, transferring at 42 nd Street. Easy, easy transportation.

It was very stimulating being there. prices were not outrageous at all. Pizza the same prices as other northeast cities, and a great pizza restaurant or two that made me want to return for more.

Highly recommend a visit.

Anonymous wrote:My DS is still trying to get over the shock of getting into both incredible schools. Commitment deadline is coming soon, and while the decision is his entirely, I was curious to see what insight people might give.

DS has flip-flopped between engineering and liberal arts for over a year now. If he goes to Columbia, he'll do engineering for sure (with a minor in humanities, probably). If he goes to Harvard, everything's up in the air.

Costs are very similar.

Did he visit? Which city does he like better?

Who cares if Columbia is a tad above Stanford or if Stanford is a tad above Columbia ? Both are outstanding centers of learning, and any normal person would be thrilled to pursue the educational opportunities available at either university.

That said, Columbia has unparalleled cultural opportunities for the undergraduate with New York City that no one can ever hope to match, not even Harvard.

100 % correct. Thank you for your explanation and for your eloquence.

This very reason is why Yale and Princeton are accepting older students into their undergraduate programs, including older students from non-traditional backgrounds. These two other universities recognize the value,diversity that these non-traditional students bring to the campus, in addition to a social obligation on the part of the universities.

Just look at their web pages on older students, and transfer students. There are now institutional programs very much part of the undergraduate student body for older students at Yale and Princeton.

Columbia's program is far more developed for this than at yale and Princeton for older, non-traditional students. I doff my cap to all three universities for making this effort.

Why would any Columbia student complain about the GS program? Those students bring in huge dollars to the school, they pay as much in tuition, and Columbia isn’t punished at USNWR for having 1/3 of its undergraduates basically undocumented. It’s a win win for Columbia. Of course that lofty top five ranking is not believable for those who are a bit more informed. Seriously, Columbia over Stanford?

Anonymous wrote: Who cares if a GS student is studying in the library.

I have no idea what your resentment is about, but the GS program is fine and no College student I have ever known has ever complained about GS students on campus; nor have I ever seen any literature anywhere about GS on the Columbia campus other than excellent reviews.

As an undergraduate I met veterans who opened my eyes about conflict in little-known parts of the world, a journalist, and a retired artist. Fantastic supplementary experiences which made m appreciate as a 21 year old College junior what the world is like after college, and made me work even harder at the things in life which are important. They are a blessing to developing any undergraduate's world-view.

+1. Columbia offers a vastly different undergrad student experience for the 18-year-old College/SEAS student than that of Harvard or Princeton. It is partly because of its location in NYC that it is impossible to not meet people outside of the school, but the presence of GS exposes students to a completely different set of life experiences that would not be found in a typical student body. If a student believes that this would be beneficial for their academic and personal growth, then that's great. If one wants an insular environment with eating clubs in a suburban town, that's great as well. This is a difference of personal preference, and it is simply wrong to argue that one is better than the other. Let the kid who's applying decide.

USNWR rankings are by and large made for traditional high school students who are applying to college and their parents. If they include the lower SAT averages (think about context, GS adults won't go through the same prep that HS students would) or higher acceptance rates (mostly due to GS' self-selection as not many 26-year-olds would even think about going back to school), that would be misleading. The admissions statistics won't be accurate for the 18-year-olds that are applying to CC/SEAS. If the average SAT for CC/SEAS/GS is 1520 but for only CC/SEAS is 1540, that would be misleading. A student who got a 1520 may have taken the SAT again so that they would be at least above the mean, but combining GS would show inaccurate data for the person of interest: an 18-year-old applying to CC/SEAS, who is ineligible to apply to GS to begin with (and vice versa.)

There have been many claims made on this thread that GS students are inferior to the traditional 18-year-old matriculants, and that somehow they diminish the experience of CC/SEAS. First of all, I have heard only positive remarks about the presence of GS students from the College and Engineering students; if someone really wants to prove that College/Eng students hated GS students, then bring in some CC/Eng alumni that would actually say that, or the conversation won't even begin...

If you say that the GS students are less intelligent and bright than CC students, that is false. The one thing we have to remember about the admissions in these universities is that it's truly a holistic admissions method. An admission officer wouldn't expect the same types of awards, SAT scores, leadership positions, and other ECs from a low-income applicant from an undistinguished public school and a student from Exeter. Just as everything is contextualized in admissions, GS students should be held to a different standard; we don't expect 26-year-olds to attend an SAT summer intensive camp or compete for science research awards. Rather, they are adults who have diverse life experiences that are going back to school for various reasons: they had family issues that prevented them from attending college before, wanted to change careers and needed a college degree, are veterans, etc. Most if not all probably didn't even apply to CC/SEAS when they were 18 because their life circumstances were completely different. Also, their GPA average is higher than CC students; GS students are obviously capable of handling the rigor.

Anyone who bashes the GS program for letting nontraditional students take the same courses as traditional matriculants, or just bashes the GS students in general, should be aware that they are criticizing the opportunity for those who didn't have the privileges, or had an interruption in their academic careers, etc. to be given a second chance to pursue a true undergraduate education. That is a very snobbish thing to do; it is toxic and shouldn't be accepted nor encouraged. Not all 18-year-olds can focus on writing their supplemental essays for 20 schools, gain leadership positions in clubs, compete in speech and debate, or even have the option to go to college in the first place. If you oppose any institution or program that gives these people a chance to receive a true undergraduate education instead of throwing them into so-called extension schools that clearly have an inferior quality of education, then I am simply lost for words.

No, I am not a troll.

I described things exactly as I saw them and exactly how everyone else I knew at the College saw them.

Please don't cringe. Instead have a positive attitude and open yourself up to all kinds of people in education, just like opening yourself up to all kinds of books.

Wonderful things happen to a person's development in the library and in the classroom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: To the fellow who keeps bashing GS :

You are ignoring the fact that Columbia College deans would not permit anything to harm the quality of education of its undergraduates coming from a traditional high school background. Its number one priority at the College, just as the website says is to maximize the best educational training and opportunities possible for its undergraduates.

The deans are world-class leaders in education at the College and there is no way that they permit even for a second a watering down of the education of thier undergraduates. The College program prides itself in being the best in studructured undergraduate education and invests mega-millions in its core requirements. No one and no leading academic would let his/her integrity and the institution's integrity be compromised by a dilution iin the educational experience. why are you selling them short ?

The College is the fifth oldest undergaduate institution in the nation. No committed academic leader or university president would tamper with that status or compromise the enormous resources iinvested in the College's undergraduate programs, incluing its vaunted core.

After Columbia College, I studied on a scholarship at University of Oxford. Both were absolutely stunning educational experiences with wonderful training and sharp -diamond-like minds. However, Columbia was the better of the two with more resources invested in the undergraduates, greater access to intellectual and cultural opportunities. The Bodlian Library at Oxford is a world leader, and Columbia's libraries are similar. The vibes of earnest scholarship felt and seen in the two library systems were no different. Who cares if a GS student is studying in the library.

I have no idea what your resentment is about, but the GS program is fine and no College student I have ever known has ever complained about GS students on campus; nor have I ever seen any literature anywhere about GS on the Columbia campus other than excellent reviews.

As an undergraduate I met veterans who opened my eyes about conflict in little-known parts of the world, a journalist, and a retired artist. Fantastic supplementary experiences which made m appreciate as a 21 year old College junior what the world is like after college, and made me work even harder at the things in life which are important. They are a blessing to developing any undergraduate's world-view.

you're the type of college graduate that makes me cringe. I hope you just a troll.

The other poster going on about GS is absolutely right.

It's an extension program. But who cares, Columbia needs not follow other extension programs. It's a maverick.

Anonymous wrote: To the fellow who keeps bashing GS :

You are ignoring the fact that Columbia College deans would not permit anything to harm the quality of education of its undergraduates coming from a traditional high school background. Its number one priority at the College, just as the website says is to maximize the best educational training and opportunities possible for its undergraduates.

The deans are world-class leaders in education at the College and there is no way that they permit even for a second a watering down of the education of thier undergraduates. The College program prides itself in being the best in studructured undergraduate education and invests mega-millions in its core requirements. No one and no leading academic would let his/her integrity and the institution's integrity be compromised by a dilution iin the educational experience. why are you selling them short ?

The College is the fifth oldest undergaduate institution in the nation. No committed academic leader or university president would tamper with that status or compromise the enormous resources iinvested in the College's undergraduate programs, incluing its vaunted core.

After Columbia College, I studied on a scholarship at University of Oxford. Both were absolutely stunning educational experiences with wonderful training and sharp -diamond-like minds. However, Columbia was the better of the two with more resources invested in the undergraduates, greater access to intellectual and cultural opportunities. The Bodlian Library at Oxford is a world leader, and Columbia's libraries are similar. The vibes of earnest scholarship felt and seen in the two library systems were no different. Who cares if a GS student is studying in the library.

I have no idea what your resentment is about, but the GS program is fine and no College student I have ever known has ever complained about GS students on campus; nor have I ever seen any literature anywhere about GS on the Columbia campus other than excellent reviews.

As an undergraduate I met veterans who opened my eyes about conflict in little-known parts of the world, a journalist, and a retired artist. Fantastic supplementary experiences which made m appreciate as a 21 year old College junior what the world is like after college, and made me work even harder at the things in life which are important. They are a blessing to developing any undergraduate's world-view.

you're the type of college graduate that makes me cringe. I hope you just a troll.

The other poster going on about GS is absolutely right.

either. Whatever school vibes the best with DC. The differences people are mentioning are minor at best.