Reply to How do you know if God has forgiven you?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Don't you think it's really about personal responsibility?  Why do you need God to forgive you for something you did that you know is wrong?  Why don't you accept that you did something wrong, and work to be better?  Why not forgive yourself and move forward to being a better person?

What exactly do you need God's forgiveness for? [/quote]

We also need God's forgiveness before we can really forgive ourselves.[/quote]

People who don't believe in god forgive themselves just fine.[/quote]

Maybe. If you say so. But I'm not convinced that someone who has committed a truly heinous sin or crime -- adultery, robbery, etc. -- can ever find personal peace or redemption without the love of God intervening. [/quote]

If you don't believe in an invisible supernatural being, then receiving "redemption" from the being is immaterial.   Plus, statistically, non-believers are much less likely to commit heinous crimes for which  forgiveness is thought to be needed.[/quote]

It's not immaterial when the guilt, consequences of the action, etc. eat away at you for the rest of your life. And they will, if not properly dealt with. And as to your statistic... where in the world did you get that? I don't believe that one for a minute, sorry![/quote]

You don't believe that for one minute? Even without evidence, a generalized assertion of mathematical statistics a lot more believable than the assertion of a supernatural creator. Anyway, here are the statistics:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what-percentage-of-prisoners-are-atheists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/

Atheists make up 0.07% of the prison population, but 2.8% of the general population. Logic follows then, that atheists are less likely to commit heinous crimes.

I also find the concept of vicarious redemption entirely immoral - the Christian concept that as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, your sins are forgiven. You don't have to do anything other than accept Jesus, that's the one and only criterion for redemption. Your debts and guilt are then absolved and forgiven because Jesus has suffered the punishment for you. That's immoral and entirely contrary to the concept of personal responsibility. This is why Atheists are less likely to perform immoral acts because they don't subscribe to the belief that your guilt, conscience, and burden of being a good person can be transferred to someone else. There is no excuse, no scapegoating, no numbing comfort from a fictional book read back in soothing tone by someone who's primary goal is to keep up the illusion and increase his flock. [/quote]

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