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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Generally, the function of standardized testing in college admissions is to provide some level of commensurability among candidates (and/or a reality check on HS GPA).  APs can serve the latter function, but not the former, because not all schools offer them, not all students take them when offered, and many students won't have results prior to admissions decisionmaking.  SAT IIs test material that is supposed to be taught in HS and that colleges expect students to know when they come in the door.  So it's a more reasonable requirement from an admissions standpoint.[/quote]

Colleges may be concerned about the level of teaching that goes on in AP classes, sure. But I have heard no concerns that the the tests themselves have declined in difficulty. So while a college may look skeptically at the grade of A in an AP class, getting a 4 or 5 on the test should be a reasonable measure of course mastery. Why should a student who has gotten a high score on an AP test be asked to take an SAT II in the same subject? (In fact, many admissions "experts" advise applicants to take SAT II tests in exactly the AP subjects they scored 4 or 5.) What is the point? The only point would be if colleges DO think the AP test itself is no longer a good test of knowledge. If that's true, then why do they want you to take the AP tests at all? Why not ask students to take SAT II INSTEAD?

Colleges may be concerned that they don't have test results for AP classes taken senior year prior to admissions decision-making. But if this is the reason why colleges ask for SAT II scores, doesn't that mean colleges expect students to demonstrate mastery of course material BEFORE the student has actually taken the class?

Colleges may be concerned that they don't have a reality check on HS GPA, or a standard measure of knowledge, for kids who don't or can't take AP classes. And it makes sense to ask THOSE students to take SAT IIs. Again, this doesn't explain why kids who have taken AP classes/tests should also be required to take SAT IIs.

Are the same parents who are on this board complaining about the pressure and demands on high school students and the cutthroat competitive environment in some high schools the same parents who are making excuses for why all this testing is a good idea?[/quote]

I'd be fine with eliminating APs.  I think they're screwed up on so many levels.  But part of my reaction is based on having been a professor in a liberal arts field.  Might see it differently if I were in math or science.   At a minimum, I'd like to see the "take the most challenging courses you can" advice change dramatically.

Not sure whether I'd require SAT IIs if I were placed in charge of deciding how to do college admissions.  But I can see why someone in that position might make that decision -- hence my explanation (in response another poster's asking why).  And if colleges want to compare kids who didn't take AP courses with kids who did, they need to have both groups take the same test.  Comparing one kid's APs scores with another kid's SAT IIs doesn't provide commensurability which, again, is what I think they're looking for at the admissions stage.

Post-admissions, most colleges I'm familiar with use a variety of different tests (in-house, SAT II, AP) for placement purposes and/or for relief from various distribution requirements.  Depends on the course and sometimes the student has a choice.  The rules are specific enough that my take is faculty are the decisionmakers at this stage.  They're the ones who care about ensuring content mastery rather than making comparisons among students.  [/quote]

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