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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]This is driven almost entirely by mainline Protestant churches — not evangelical or RCC churches.

My view is that this is primarily a cynical attempt by these churches to try to increase membership — look at us, we are gay friendly, you should join our church.  As you said, they aren’t putting flags or special advertisements for any other group of people.

And yet what has happened?  These churches continue to bleed members and are a shell of their former selves.   They are only going to continue to decrease in members, and eventually those old buildings will close too because they are expensive to maintain.   Moreover, [b]if you go to most mainline Protestants, you hear VERY little about Jesus, the cross, justification by faith, etc.[/b]  You do hear a lot of progressive politics, etc.  
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The bolded is not in line with my experience at all, as Presbyterian USA. 
But more relevantly, there are dozens of different Protestant denominations with different beliefs,  e.g., denominations that as a matter of doctrine are not overly concerned with the cross. These differences have deep historical and theological roots. You're entitled to think their beliefs are incorrect, but to suggest they arise from a desire to attract membership in the 21st century is pretty ignorant. [/quote]

I was the original person who replied.  My best friend growing up belonged to a PCUSA church and I frequently tagged along with his family to various church things.   My first wife also went to a PCUSA church and I occasionally went with her.   Maybe it was just purely me.   But I remember little very discussion  of Jesus and no discussion of the cross, or substitutionary atonement.   In my early 40s, I came across Tim Keller for the first time.   Despite seeming like I knew a lot about Christianity, I felt like I was hearing about a new religion for the first time after finding Keller’s sermons and then reading his books.   What Christianity actually meant, why it was profoundly deeper than “just do good stuff and maybe get to heaven,” Jesus becoming beautiful to me, developing a personal relationship with Jesus, seeing the Gospel actually change the worst habits in my life up until that point — it was nothing like the religion I grew up with or was around as a young adult.   Again, maybe it was just me, but it’s my experience in talking to other mainline Protestants, that [b]they do not, by and large, have a faith that truly changes them.[/b]   [/quote]

If you grow up with something then of course it doesn't feel like it changes you: it's your normal. That's why adult converts (to anything) are so much more zealous and often more vocal as compared to people who believe and do the exact same things but have from childhood.

Like most Protestant denominations, PCUSA congregations are each slightly different. The ministers have their choice of topics to preach. It sounds like the ones you encountered were uninspiring to you or perhaps really didn't base their sermons in the Bible (not my experience but I'm sure it happens). 
But it's a big leap to imply, as you repeatedly have, that because it didn't move [i]you[/i], these people don't have a deeply held faith. And it's unfortunate you can't imagine that congregations would be LGBT-welcoming as a sincere expression of religious values and Biblical teachings, even if you differ with them.[/quote]

For the record — I believe that all Christians should express agape love to everyone, regardless of these theological differences.  That is where Christianity has fallen short.   A major problem in society writ large now is that we do not have respect and kindness towards those whom we may disagree with.    The very definition of tolerance is that we should be able to love someone who is different from yourself — but especially right now, society has become so tribal that to love someone who is not part of your “tribe” is thought to be a betrayal.   Christians SHOULD be different because this is explicitly how Jesus told us to live, but, often are not.   It’s partly why I had no interest in religion for a long time.

This whole thread started by someone who is not religious asking a very good question — why do all these churches have rainbow flags outside them when they don’t have have flags about any other group?  It’s a fair question.  I do believe that some of this is virtue signaling and being done because it is thought that being seen as “gay-friendly” will get certain people to come to church — yet these are the same churches that are bleeding members right now because so many of their church services are about progressive politics, not Jesus, the cross, and the gospel.

That all being said — I *do* imagine that there are some churches that do believe this as a sincerely held religious belief and I never meant to say or imply otherwise.  I don’t agree with it though as a matter of theology and it’s very hard to make the case if you truly believe that the Bible is supernatural and the word of God.   I am not talking about people who don’t believe that — just Christians who supposedly do believe that.   And if you are a Christian and don’t believe that, then I don’t really know how you consider yourself a Christian.  There are certain beliefs that are core to Christianity and this is one of them.

I should also add — my theological views on this issue are not necessarily the same as my view on civil law.  We don’t criminalize adultery, idolatry, greed, and all kinds of other things that are not consistent with the Bible.   So I can certainly see the argument that we shouldn’t treat gay marriage differently from a civil law perspective in a democracy.

I’ve talked about Tim Keller in this thread.   The most moving tribute to Tim after he passed away was from a gay, Jewish, atheist he befriended.  There’s a lesson for all Christians to learn from this article.   It is possible to have a principled theological difference with someone but still treat that person in the same way that Jesus commands us to treat people.

https://religionnews.com/2023/05/22/amid-post-trump-evangelicalism-tim-keller-revived-my-faith-in-the-power-of-faith/
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