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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It depends on the school where you are teaching AP. Is it a school where everyone is encouraged to take this AP class or only the top students take the AP test like AP Calculus AB or BC or AP Chemistry? If really all the seniors are taking this AP class then yes have a spread of grades.

However, if it is really made up of students who have always been in honors classes then as a parent I much prefer that almost all the students receive A's and B's regardless of the pass rate on the test.

There is a APUSH teacher at my son's school which is a school where only the top students are tracked into APUSH. They have always been top students yet the AP History teacher feels that an A is equivalent to a 5, a B a 4, and a c is a 3. So on most recent APUSH tests only around ten percent of students nationwide got a 5 so his reasoning is he only gives around 10 percent of students an A. I think this is ridiculous. All these students are going to college and no way if they took a freshman college US history class 90% of them are getting B's or lower. At least 50% would get A's.  [/quote]

I agree with the views of the poster immediately above. I am out of state and my kids go to an easy/chill suburban high school where most teachers don't grade very hard.  My 9th grader is taking APUSH along with top 10% of class type kids.  Parents are professionals with grad degrees from good schools.  This is my kid's first AP and hardest class ever in this district.  In our district there is an insane focus (in APUSH only) on making extensive textbook notes and turning them in for grades.  This is a time suck that does not simulate college behaviors that I found useful.  The last teacher called them "Cornell notes". I asked around and none of the Cornellians in my life had used this note-taking style in college.

So far my 9th grader has two marking period Bs and a C+ on the midterm.  This teacher is relying a lot on the ETS test bank for quizzes and tests.  My senior, who took the same class with a different teacher three years ago, did much better gradewise (As) with less work even though my sons are equally smart kids.  My younger one does study his course materials for the test and I gave him two extra AP test review books I purchased from Amazon.  (I don't think he is using those extra books a lot.)  According to my younger student, he gets good grades on anything written/free expression but gets tripped up on Educational Testing Service's "distractor questions". I'm not very happy about this analysis because if it's true, I'm not fond of how standardized tests are written to trick slightly weaker students to force a curve.

So...back to your question...I care a lot about my son's GPA.  I'm not happy he's getting a B and honestly, any B reduces his chances of getting into our excellent state flagship where his brother just got accepted.  However, since I don't want to be a helicopter parent, and my son says there are some kids getting an A (all extremely bright kids), there really isn't anything I can say to the teacher.  I've concluded this teacher wants a forced curve that is tougher than the predecessors.  But I'm bummed it's being achieved with ETS strategies (multiple choice, distractors, etc.) rather than "show me what you know" essay questions.  And that this class is making my kid dislike school again.  So I guess I'm in favor of easier grading and not linking it to a performance on the test.  But I'd say a person who gets a 3 should be getting a B minimum.  Not a C.  High school is not college.  And AP classes are just a simulation of college anyway - not the real thing.

On to the value of APs in general.  My hope is that an AP class is interesting and thought-provoking in addition to being a chance to blast through an introductory college textbook.  I agree with the parents who say AP has become a cynical replacement for what used to be the "'Gifted" track.  And to me that's AP's greatest utility.  To get my son into better classes with more intellectually engaged teachers and better students.   All along, my family has tried to figure out what the financial value of AP will be to our family and been pretty skeptical about it.  In my older son's case, he will get a modest stockpile of credits that will only be useful if he flunks or withdraws from a class.  The credits he can get imported to his college transcript don't allow much meaningful course advancement.

So, summing up...as a parent, I don't want my kid's GPA linked to the AP test.  The test is just an artifact for me.  I want my kid graded in APUSH in a manner consistent with other hard classes in our school district.  If that means my kid gets a B, I can live with it.  A C is a big quandary.

Now I have a question for you, teacher.  Should I in any way contact the APUSH teacher at my school regarding my kid's lower performance vs. expectations and school district norms?  I have not so far.  Especially because I had hoped my kid could pull his grade up himself and I don't want to be "one of those parents". I don't know what I can say besides I think my son should be getting a better grade in context/your curve is too strict.  I am really interested to know what you think.  Because your concern is a mirror image of mine...

Thanks all for reading my essay about the experience of being an APUSH parent...

[/quote]

I really appreciate your post!! I want to very much agree with what you say about the value of AP level classes in high school. This is exactly what I am struggling with. My students grades in past years are very much aligned with their performance on the AP exam. And the pass rates are higher than FCPS averages. But I keep thinking of students who drop the class when they don’t get the grade they want (A) even though they like and would benefit from class and students who work hard but struggling even with extra help just to be passing. If there were non-ap but still challenging options for each subject (think DE or just real honors level) there would be no questions here. AP implies standardized grading. But for many courses there is no non-ap option or there is one but it is a joke of a class. And thus here I am..

About your child: I think that if you believe the assignments are taking too much time and at the same time are not beneficial for your child, you should definitely bring this up. I would definitely encourage parents to talk to me about this. I would hate to learn I assign busy work, and I would definitely make changes. But I can’t say anything about the grade or whether it is representative of your child knowledge. Not possible to advise without working with your child. Sorry. I must say, in my experience, AP exam is a good mix if mcqs and frqs to have all kinds of students to show what they know (especially with the curve). And I think the what you call tricky mcqs do have value - they make students stop and think about nuances. But again, this is all true in the context of s longer comprehensive exam which Gad a good mix of all kinds old questions ( straightforward, conceptual, factual, “tricky”, etc.). I hope your teacher designs balanced tests.. [/quote]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.  It is valuable to me.

There is a step I can take, that I have not, of working with my child to understand his test answers and whether his knowledge is "B"level. I'm a pretty experienced consumer of standardized tests and I love history and have a deep background.  Perhaps I need to dig deeper than my gut feeling that things are off.

I do not think I should challenge the particular note-taking focus of this class since it's been common across teachers.  I think that means the secondary curriculum director or the history curriculum specialist wants it that way.

But I appreciate your POV on wanting to hear from parents and will keep that in mind as a data point for a future dilemma.

I really appreciate you asking this question. To other teachers who think this debate shouldn't play out in public...I think you're wrong.  Grades aren't just grades anymore. And there's a lot going wrong with what's happening with detracking in the name of equity.  I long for the discriminatory simplicity of the old honors/college prep/job right after high school track even though it had some morally questionable results and discouraged some from achieving their full potential.  Now we have an opposite situation where my kids were bored and sad in early grades because most tracking was prohibited.  I hope we are realizing the equity benefits but I kind of think it's not working.  Because students need to be in classes where kids are moving at roughly the same pace.

It's actually from this site that I've come to realize that AP is in effect the honors track of my youth.  Honestly, that makes me want to push for more APs at my kids' public high school even though they aren't very useful for college credit for them.  I'm also starting to advocate for 7 period days like I had as a kid.  My kids' school has 6 period days.  I think the school needs to offer more subjects and more rigor to meet the needs of the top students.

OP, there are no easy answers for you, but I would encourage you to try to make sure that your lowest-graded students still like history and aren't turned off by it.  They are the ones most impacted by whatever is decided.  You also should consider making kids very aware of what the grading policies are like.  Let kids opt out in advance of class registration.  That's much better than in-course struggles. My view is that C students are usually working in a class that's wrong for them.  That's exactly why the Ivies have grade inflation.  The caliber of students has risen and there is no point in forcing a curve on many humanities subjects.  I do understand the why of curves for math, engineering, and medecine but not for English and history.[/quote]

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