Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you a first year teacher? Why else would you be asking parents to make instructional decisions for you.

+1 from a different AP teacher. Ask other teachers at your school how it works. You're not the first to teach this class.

Why such reaction? I am not a first year teacher. And I have been part of AP teacher community for years, and I have obviously went to AP Summer institutes, and I am obviously aware of how other teachers approach this. But why wouldn’t I want to know what parents think (especially when public attitude to grading and testing is changing so much)? Why would you shame me for that?
There are AP classes in my school where 95% kids have As and only 50% kids pass AP Exam (mostly with 3s) while VA and FCPS pass rates for that subject are around 70%. There are classes where grades are more representative of students actual knowledge but teacher uses crazy grade curve to encourage students to stay in class: most hardworking students get A and most students pass with at least a C. But most C students don’t pass exam, most B students get 2-3, and A students get 3-5 on the exam. Finally, there are AP classes where the class grades are very much predictive of the AP Exam grade, not because teacher distributes grades to match the percentages but simply because the grades are based on what students know or don’t know. Students who don’t get their act together in the first quarter are failing the class (and often chose to drop the class).
I am sorry to say but responses like “good teacher teaches so that all students do well in class and do well on the AP exam” are just neither realistic nor helpful. And I also want to add that the choice the teacher makes here affects all students in class not just the top and bottom students. Again, I myself do not see how giving everyone an A is ok but could argue for either of the other two options . And just wanted to hear parents’ thoughts.

Nobody shamed you, but trying to plan your class and how you instruct/grade to appease parents is not how one teaches, especially in a (theoretically) advanced class that students choose to take. The only teachers I know who think it’s best to ask students and parents what they prefer when running their class are the ones who don’t have a clear instructional plan or much experience.

I don't get the impression the teacher is asking in order to make instructional plans. I suspect they are trying to understand the mindset of a parent body which often places ridiculous demands on teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Author of last post, thank you for your reply and you sharing your thoughts!

Th author of the last post ranted about "equity". Any teacher worth her beans knows that it's not "equity" that's causing grade inflation.

Anonymous wrote:Author of last post, thank you for your reply and you sharing your thoughts!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school where you are teaching AP. Is it a school where everyone is encouraged to take this AP class or only the top students take the AP test like AP Calculus AB or BC or AP Chemistry? If really all the seniors are taking this AP class then yes have a spread of grades.

However, if it is really made up of students who have always been in honors classes then as a parent I much prefer that almost all the students receive A's and B's regardless of the pass rate on the test.

There is a APUSH teacher at my son's school which is a school where only the top students are tracked into APUSH. They have always been top students yet the AP History teacher feels that an A is equivalent to a 5, a B a 4, and a c is a 3. So on most recent APUSH tests only around ten percent of students nationwide got a 5 so his reasoning is he only gives around 10 percent of students an A. I think this is ridiculous. All these students are going to college and no way if they took a freshman college US history class 90% of them are getting B's or lower. At least 50% would get A's.

I agree with the views of the poster immediately above. I am out of state and my kids go to an easy/chill suburban high school where most teachers don't grade very hard. My 9th grader is taking APUSH along with top 10% of class type kids. Parents are professionals with grad degrees from good schools. This is my kid's first AP and hardest class ever in this district. In our district there is an insane focus (in APUSH only) on making extensive textbook notes and turning them in for grades. This is a time suck that does not simulate college behaviors that I found useful. The last teacher called them "Cornell notes". I asked around and none of the Cornellians in my life had used this note-taking style in college.

So far my 9th grader has two marking period Bs and a C+ on the midterm. This teacher is relying a lot on the ETS test bank for quizzes and tests. My senior, who took the same class with a different teacher three years ago, did much better gradewise (As) with less work even though my sons are equally smart kids. My younger one does study his course materials for the test and I gave him two extra AP test review books I purchased from Amazon. (I don't think he is using those extra books a lot.) According to my younger student, he gets good grades on anything written/free expression but gets tripped up on Educational Testing Service's "distractor questions". I'm not very happy about this analysis because if it's true, I'm not fond of how standardized tests are written to trick slightly weaker students to force a curve.

So...back to your question...I care a lot about my son's GPA. I'm not happy he's getting a B and honestly, any B reduces his chances of getting into our excellent state flagship where his brother just got accepted. However, since I don't want to be a helicopter parent, and my son says there are some kids getting an A (all extremely bright kids), there really isn't anything I can say to the teacher. I've concluded this teacher wants a forced curve that is tougher than the predecessors. But I'm bummed it's being achieved with ETS strategies (multiple choice, distractors, etc.) rather than "show me what you know" essay questions. And that this class is making my kid dislike school again. So I guess I'm in favor of easier grading and not linking it to a performance on the test. But I'd say a person who gets a 3 should be getting a B minimum. Not a C. High school is not college. And AP classes are just a simulation of college anyway - not the real thing.

On to the value of APs in general. My hope is that an AP class is interesting and thought-provoking in addition to being a chance to blast through an introductory college textbook. I agree with the parents who say AP has become a cynical replacement for what used to be the "'Gifted" track. And to me that's AP's greatest utility. To get my son into better classes with more intellectually engaged teachers and better students. All along, my family has tried to figure out what the financial value of AP will be to our family and been pretty skeptical about it. In my older son's case, he will get a modest stockpile of credits that will only be useful if he flunks or withdraws from a class. The credits he can get imported to his college transcript don't allow much meaningful course advancement.

So, summing up...as a parent, I don't want my kid's GPA linked to the AP test. The test is just an artifact for me. I want my kid graded in APUSH in a manner consistent with other hard classes in our school district. If that means my kid gets a B, I can live with it. A C is a big quandary.

Now I have a question for you, teacher. Should I in any way contact the APUSH teacher at my school regarding my kid's lower performance vs. expectations and school district norms? I have not so far. Especially because I had hoped my kid could pull his grade up himself and I don't want to be "one of those parents". I don't know what I can say besides I think my son should be getting a better grade in context/your curve is too strict. I am really interested to know what you think. Because your concern is a mirror image of mine...

Thanks all for reading my essay about the experience of being an APUSH parent...

I really appreciate your post!! I want to very much agree with what you say about the value of AP level classes in high school. This is exactly what I am struggling with. My students grades in past years are very much aligned with their performance on the AP exam. And the pass rates are higher than FCPS averages. But I keep thinking of students who drop the class when they don’t get the grade they want (A) even though they like and would benefit from class and students who work hard but struggling even with extra help just to be passing. If there were non-ap but still challenging options for each subject (think DE or just real honors level) there would be no questions here. AP implies standardized grading. But for many courses there is no non-ap option or there is one but it is a joke of a class. And thus here I am..

About your child: I think that if you believe the assignments are taking too much time and at the same time are not beneficial for your child, you should definitely bring this up. I would definitely encourage parents to talk to me about this. I would hate to learn I assign busy work, and I would definitely make changes. But I can’t say anything about the grade or whether it is representative of your child knowledge. Not possible to advise without working with your child. Sorry. I must say, in my experience, AP exam is a good mix if mcqs and frqs to have all kinds of students to show what they know (especially with the curve). And I think the what you call tricky mcqs do have value - they make students stop and think about nuances. But again, this is all true in the context of s longer comprehensive exam which Gad a good mix of all kinds old questions ( straightforward, conceptual, factual, “tricky”, etc.). I hope your teacher designs balanced tests..

Anonymous wrote:Prepared for the exam and appropriate for an AP class. If all your students are struggling look at your teaching style to start with. The big problem is may kids aren't taught note taking, study skills and how to take tests. My child is on their first AP class and we are so fortunate that they are not only teaching the curriculum but study skills and that teacher has been a huge blessing. You need to teach them in a way they can pass both the class and AP test.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school where you are teaching AP. Is it a school where everyone is encouraged to take this AP class or only the top students take the AP test like AP Calculus AB or BC or AP Chemistry? If really all the seniors are taking this AP class then yes have a spread of grades.

However, if it is really made up of students who have always been in honors classes then as a parent I much prefer that almost all the students receive A's and B's regardless of the pass rate on the test.

There is a APUSH teacher at my son's school which is a school where only the top students are tracked into APUSH. They have always been top students yet the AP History teacher feels that an A is equivalent to a 5, a B a 4, and a c is a 3. So on most recent APUSH tests only around ten percent of students nationwide got a 5 so his reasoning is he only gives around 10 percent of students an A. I think this is ridiculous. All these students are going to college and no way if they took a freshman college US history class 90% of them are getting B's or lower. At least 50% would get A's.

I agree with the views of the poster immediately above. I am out of state and my kids go to an easy/chill suburban high school where most teachers don't grade very hard. My 9th grader is taking APUSH along with top 10% of class type kids. Parents are professionals with grad degrees from good schools. This is my kid's first AP and hardest class ever in this district. In our district there is an insane focus (in APUSH only) on making extensive textbook notes and turning them in for grades. This is a time suck that does not simulate college behaviors that I found useful. The last teacher called them "Cornell notes". I asked around and none of the Cornellians in my life had used this note-taking style in college.

So far my 9th grader has two marking period Bs and a C+ on the midterm. This teacher is relying a lot on the ETS test bank for quizzes and tests. My senior, who took the same class with a different teacher three years ago, did much better gradewise (As) with less work even though my sons are equally smart kids. My younger one does study his course materials for the test and I gave him two extra AP test review books I purchased from Amazon. (I don't think he is using those extra books a lot.) According to my younger student, he gets good grades on anything written/free expression but gets tripped up on Educational Testing Service's "distractor questions". I'm not very happy about this analysis because if it's true, I'm not fond of how standardized tests are written to trick slightly weaker students to force a curve.

So...back to your question...I care a lot about my son's GPA. I'm not happy he's getting a B and honestly, any B reduces his chances of getting into our excellent state flagship where his brother just got accepted. However, since I don't want to be a helicopter parent, and my son says there are some kids getting an A (all extremely bright kids), there really isn't anything I can say to the teacher. I've concluded this teacher wants a forced curve that is tougher than the predecessors. But I'm bummed it's being achieved with ETS strategies (multiple choice, distractors, etc.) rather than "show me what you know" essay questions. And that this class is making my kid dislike school again. So I guess I'm in favor of easier grading and not linking it to a performance on the test. But I'd say a person who gets a 3 should be getting a B minimum. Not a C. High school is not college. And AP classes are just a simulation of college anyway - not the real thing.

On to the value of APs in general. My hope is that an AP class is interesting and thought-provoking in addition to being a chance to blast through an introductory college textbook. I agree with the parents who say AP has become a cynical replacement for what used to be the "'Gifted" track. And to me that's AP's greatest utility. To get my son into better classes with more intellectually engaged teachers and better students. All along, my family has tried to figure out what the financial value of AP will be to our family and been pretty skeptical about it. In my older son's case, he will get a modest stockpile of credits that will only be useful if he flunks or withdraws from a class. The credits he can get imported to his college transcript don't allow much meaningful course advancement.

So, summing up...as a parent, I don't want my kid's GPA linked to the AP test. The test is just an artifact for me. I want my kid graded in APUSH in a manner consistent with other hard classes in our school district. If that means my kid gets a B, I can live with it. A C is a big quandary.

Now I have a question for you, teacher. Should I in any way contact the APUSH teacher at my school regarding my kid's lower performance vs. expectations and school district norms? I have not so far. Especially because I had hoped my kid could pull his grade up himself and I don't want to be "one of those parents". I don't know what I can say besides I think my son should be getting a better grade in context/your curve is too strict. I am really interested to know what you think. Because your concern is a mirror image of mine...

Thanks all for reading my essay about the experience of being an APUSH parent...

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school where you are teaching AP. Is it a school where everyone is encouraged to take this AP class or only the top students take the AP test like AP Calculus AB or BC or AP Chemistry? If really all the seniors are taking this AP class then yes have a spread of grades.

However, if it is really made up of students who have always been in honors classes then as a parent I much prefer that almost all the students receive A's and B's regardless of the pass rate on the test.

There is a APUSH teacher at my son's school which is a school where only the top students are tracked into APUSH. They have always been top students yet the AP History teacher feels that an A is equivalent to a 5, a B a 4, and a c is a 3. So on most recent APUSH tests only around ten percent of students nationwide got a 5 so his reasoning is he only gives around 10 percent of students an A. I think this is ridiculous. All these students are going to college and no way if they took a freshman college US history class 90% of them are getting B's or lower. At least 50% would get A's.

Anonymous wrote:Op, I completely understand your question. Since you have a question, I'm glad you asked mostly because ...

Op, I am worried and concerned that there is NOT an established policy on this - system wide, school wide, Principal and Department Heard and Teacher enforced. It should be a policy. It should be transparent. Talked about with parents before students sign up for classes. This should NOT be a question you have, but it's not your fault, if you are asking. The school system has failed you if you have to ask.

The answer depends .. not on you or the parents, it depends on how the school system wants to position themselves. Requiring all to take the AP Exam so the school system can't cherry pick best results. Do they want the respect -- and it's known by college admissions -- that a "3" is a college C and therefore a high school grade of a C is given (as a best estimate calculation of student performance)

If your school has no leadership and no consistency in grading - and you have to ask this question - that's the greatest problem of all.

Anonymous wrote:I grade on the AP curve. In my subject, a 70-ish percent gets a 5 on the exam. Therefore, I curve a 70 to be a 90 on assessments and let the trivial classwork assignments bring it up to a solid A. I haven’t had any complaints from parents (and I’m at a complaining-parents heavy school)

At the end of the day, my exam scores aren’t great because mine isn’t a class that only top tier kids take. (Think bio or environmental science vs chem and physics, or stats vs calculus). The seniors tend not to care and a ton of them end up skipping the exam or not studying at all and finish with 2s when they really could have had 3s with a smidge of effort. That’s on them though. The sophomores and juniors nearly always get 4s and 5s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you a first year teacher? Why else would you be asking parents to make instructional decisions for you.

+1 from a different AP teacher. Ask other teachers at your school how it works. You're not the first to teach this class.

Why such reaction? I am not a first year teacher. And I have been part of AP teacher community for years, and I have obviously went to AP Summer institutes, and I am obviously aware of how other teachers approach this. But why wouldn’t I want to know what parents think (especially when public attitude to grading and testing is changing so much)? Why would you shame me for that?
There are AP classes in my school where 95% kids have As and only 50% kids pass AP Exam (mostly with 3s) while VA and FCPS pass rates for that subject are around 70%. There are classes where grades are more representative of students actual knowledge but teacher uses crazy grade curve to encourage students to stay in class: most hardworking students get A and most students pass with at least a C. But most C students don’t pass exam, most B students get 2-3, and A students get 3-5 on the exam. Finally, there are AP classes where the class grades are very much predictive of the AP Exam grade, not because teacher distributes grades to match the percentages but simply because the grades are based on what students know or don’t know. Students who don’t get their act together in the first quarter are failing the class (and often chose to drop the class).
I am sorry to say but responses like “good teacher teaches so that all students do well in class and do well on the AP exam” are just neither realistic nor helpful. And I also want to add that the choice the teacher makes here affects all students in class not just the top and bottom students. Again, I myself do not see how giving everyone an A is ok but could argue for either of the other two options . And just wanted to hear parents’ thoughts.

Nobody shamed you, but trying to plan your class and how you instruct/grade to appease parents is not how one teaches, especially in a (theoretically) advanced class that students choose to take. The only teachers I know who think it’s best to ask students and parents what they prefer when running their class are the ones who don’t have a clear instructional plan or much experience.

I don't get the impression the teacher is asking in order to make instructional plans. I suspect they are trying to understand the mindset of a parent body which often places ridiculous demands on teachers.

She asked right in the OP how parents would prefer the class to be graded…

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in a high school in FCPS teaching AP classes taken mostly by seniors but also few juniors (and very rarely sophomores). I want to know parents opinion about this: do you prefer the AP class assessments/grading to be designed so that most students pass the class with a decent grade but only 65-70% or so pass the AP exam OR do you prefer the students’ grades in class and AP grades to be the same for most students (C in class gets at least a 3 on AP exam, B in class gets at least a 4 on AP exam, A in class pretty much a guarantee of a 5 on AP exam). Obviously, in both cases there will be unhappy students/parents. But I want to head opinions and arguments Freon each side. Thanks!!