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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I adore babies. 
I am very judgmental of other people's pushy and entitled kids when they're past 8 y/o or so. The pushback, bargaining, or outright smiling defiance on grownup's rules? Keep that for your own house. That also makes me suspicious of my relationship with the parents - what kind of shit do their parents talk about me at home for the kid to believe they don't need to respect me in mine? [/quote]

The smiling defiance is disturbing but in our house pushback and bargaining aren’t considered disrespectful in our house. DH and I are always amused and sometimes impressed with the arguments our kids make in favor of their positions, and at times they do persuade us that they are right. I tell my kids not to do this at friend’s houses and I hope they listen but I can’t be sure they do. 
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DH and I are both very polite, self-deprecating, considerate, tolerant, etc... We teach our kids to be considerate but I honestly sometimes worry they'll grow up to be pushovers. I see it on the playground already. It's a fine balance to strike. I like your approach that bargaining and pushback is acceptable to an extent. The difficult question is where exactly do you draw the line, without confusing the kids.  We have taken the approach that they can try to talk to us politely about anything, but that whining, pushing, hitting, etc. will never be tolerated (let alone successful as negotiating strategies).[/quote]

I think that’s a good line. I know that for some families, a no is a hard no, but I just can’t get it into my head that my child should have to obey me without question or pushback just because I’m an adult. Sometimes I say “I can’t articulate the reason I am requiring you to do this, I’ll try later, but you need to do it anyway,” or I might say “we need to do it this way because it is simpler for me even though it is harder for you, and I know that’s not really fair but otherwise I will lose my mind,” but it’s always understood that bargaining and reasoning and pushback are allowed.

My kids’ teachers say my kids are very respectful and well-behaved and sweet, and my kids get invites to other kids’ houses often (in line with pandemic severity), so I figure they can’t be that bad, right?

But this is a good reminder that the debates about rules and expectations need to stay at home. [/quote]

I will answer one "Why?" if it's not accompanied by whining.  If they have an issue with the answer, they're welcome to state their objection clearly (again, without whining or yelling), and I may reconsider.

Safety rules do not get reconsidered.  However, my goal is for children to grow into adults who can evaluate requests and demands made of them, ask for a reason when they don't understand why something needs to be done a certain way, then decide to 1. state their alternative/objection, 2. elect to make a different choice, while understanding that there may be consequences they don't like, or 3. choose to comply.  They need to understand that they have a choice, they aren't a robot.

My 4th grader had fun with a unit we did this year on civil disobedience...  Lists of pros and cons, both individual and for the group, for a variety of different movements...  It was a blast![/quote]

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