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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]According to God (in Islam), he wants adherents to be modest. That means to not stand out or stick out, be flashy or outlandish - both in clothing, and in lifestyle.

So the wealthy Arabs with the fancy cars, gaudy houses, but simple cotton garb? They're not modest.

Wearing niqab in most places? Not at ALL modest - you're completely drawing attention to yourself.

Hijab is becoming more commonplace, and I couldn't care less whether people wear it or not. But the hijabis with the high heals, leggings, and full face of makeup are comical.

In Islam, the goal is to not draw attention to yourself. The goal is NOT to cover up - but many Muslims themselves don't understand this distinction. [/quote]

I think the hijab draws a lot of attention towards the woman, especially when you live in a culture where women's hair is uncovered but you can still dress modestly (loose clothes, high necklines.  Men in America are not lusting crazily over women's calves or hair.

On the contrary, when I was living in Egypt, I felt that men were staring at me, all the time, no matter what I was wearing.  And I am pretty sure that hijab wearing women got the same treatment.  The reason for this is that the men have internalized that women are objects, and they can do whatever they want to them, and it's the woman's fault for being sexually attractive to them.  Coincidentally, this never happened to my mother, growing up in the 60s when most women did not wear hijab.  These ideas are all connected- the idea that women (and ONLY women) must be "modest" or covered up, the idea that women are objects, and the idea that men are not responsible for their sexual feelings, women are.  These are all connected.[/quote]

PP, and I totally agree.

But there is a difference between what is meant by the religion (what I commented on), and what happens to be the case culturally speaking (what you posted) - it's been reinterpreted and redefined (by men who set the rules according to their own ideas). I'm not religious but I was raised Muslim - the whole modesty/hijab thing is something so many Muslims have just bastardized completely.

So when I see a woman wearing hijab here, it means nothing to me. It doesn't mean they're religious, or modest, or stupid, or whatever - it doesn't tell you a damn thing because the whole concept has just been bastardized to mean anything conclusive. It's nothing more than a cloth that a woman decided to cover he hair. Just like I'm wearing sewn cloth to cover my feet. It's a type of garment, and that's it.

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PP, since you were raised Muslim, I hope you can answer some questions that I will try to pose as respectfully as I can.

Why are women in America wearing that thing?

I am so torn.  I am firmly in the camp of "wear whatever the hell you want," but at the same time, I feel a tinge of panic when I see women in hijab frequently.  I think it is because I have connected the proliferation of hijab to the constant sexual harassment I experienced in Egypt.  I wonder how young Muslim men are growing up, when they see women covering up.  Are they being taught that women should be covering up like candy (or freaking Oreos?)?  Are they being taught that women are responsible for their sexual urges?  Are they being taught that the woman they eventually marry is "theirs" which is why only he will see her hair, basically?

I had a period of super-piety when I was a teenager (when most women are deciding to wear the hijab).  I sort of grew out of it and changed my mind about a lot of things, but I think I am a better, more open, more complete person as a result.  But I wonder, if there was a physical manifestation of my religiosity, would it have been harder to discard?  Would I have become more hardened, instead of a more open person?  If I felt like people were constantly judging me and staring at me because of my religious beliefs, I probably would have clung to them more closely, which I think would have been a bad thing.  There was no room for growth when I was that person.  Sorry for the crazy rambling but I really am fascinated/horrified by where Islamic practice is today.  It's like a car accident I can't stop staring at.[/quote]

I've spent a lot of time around American Muslims of various backgrounds and origins (Arab/Middle Eastern, South Asian, Iranian, African, convert, etc), and though I am not at all religious now, am still friends (and related to) practicing Muslims. I truly think nothing of someone wearing a headscarf/hijab, and it tells me nothing about the person without talking to them and their individual experiences. I will say that the vast (vast!) majority of people who wear hijab in the US do so because of their sovereign, individual choice.

I've know Muslim women who cover their hair:
- because of family expectations
- because of cultural tradition
- as a "fuck you" feminist expression - kind of like how some women refuse to wear makeup. It's a "fuck you" to "the man" for feeling like they need to be pretty and have pretty hair
- because they're lazy and don't want to do their hair
- because they like the style/fashion challenge - some women are incredibly artful in their hijabs and hair covering
- because they think it'll help them catch a husband who wants a "good Muslim girl" (like many Christian and Jewish men want a "good Christian girl" or "good Jewish girl")
- because they think it gives off the impression of being pious, even though they're not. How many people do you know who wear crosses, but have done some pretty unethical things? For some, wearing a cross is a public facade. Ditto for some Muslim women.
- because they think it's "modest" under their personal interpretation
- all their friends are doing it, and they don't want to be left it. It can provide a social circle - a lot of people tend to dress like their friends, Muslim or not
- they feel like it re-connects them to their faith and sense of order to life's chaos - a sort of "born again" feeling of purpose
- lots, lots more

I have known Muslim women who fall into all of these categories (in the United States - abroad is very different and varies dramatically from place to place). Truly, when I see a woman wearing a head covering, it tells me nothing about them, because the internal reasons are far and wide. Many Muslim women will profess "it's for modesty" but when you're around this in community circles, you quickly see that there's so much more.

I will tell you that while raised in a practicing Muslim household, we were never ever pressured to cover our hair outside of religious activities. Most Muslim women will cover their hair when praying, going to a mosque, reading Quran, or participating in a religious activity. I did - we were told it was a way to humble yourself before God. But it was never suggested that we continue hair covering outside of religious activities.

Logically of course, that's bullshit. If God is everywhere, God sees you naked in the shower. But it doesn't matter, because God's not a sexual being. Why on earth would God care if you covered your hair when you prayed or went into a mosque?! What difference does it make?! However, lots of traditions still do this - many Catholic and Jewish women wear hair coverings at church & synagogue. Logic is not relevant to any religion.

Truly, when I see a woman with a hair covering, I don't feel like I can draw any conclusions whatsoever. Having been on the "inside" of this debate, I really see hijab as nothing more than a clothing accessory. I can make no other judgments about it and don't care one way or another. It's hair - people do all kinds of stuff to their hair anyway - who cares?

Niqab or face covering though, that is something else. That serves no purpose in any society on this planet. I would welcome any ban, in this country or any, on niqab - any Islamic justification for it is bullshit.
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