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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]We are an atheist family raising our children in the secular tradition. I absolutely love secular Christmas and have a blast taking in all the experiences. That being said, the focus on consumerism and waste has really gotten under my skin in recent years. I have done my part to slow or stop the adult gift giving and am trying to limit the amount of new in box plastic that comes in for the kids. They already have so many toys from past birthdays, Christmases, and one off visits, we have so little space, and it makes me feel very Grinchy to have to spend my precious vacation time with them around the holidays purging their spaces just to make room for junk they’ll forget in two weeks. All that is to say, Grandma’s joy brings me a lot of grief.

I am very generous with loved ones on their birthdays and special occasions. But I’d rather spend time with them and enjoy experiences with them than opening gifts.

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Your post about “secular Christmas” is offensive. If you scoff at that, please go post threads about Secular Yom Kippur, Secular Ramadan, and Secular Rosh Hannakuh and get back to us.  [/quote]

Dp You know what pp?  You chose to be offended so that is on you.  People do celebrate secular Christmas unlike the other holidays  you mentioned.  
I don't know why you are so offended on how other people live their lives.  We should be allowed to share our views.[/quote]

I think pp is being naive, so many 'cultural' christians and atheist families enjoy Christmas as a secular family get together holiday barely giving any thought to the Christian element. Some of my Buddhist family members in Thailand enjoy Christmas too! Wasn't it documented that JC was born in the summer?[/quote]

The Catholic Church started Christmas via Pope Constantine.

CHRIST + MASS.  Mass = catholic church service.

It's absolutely a Christian holiday.

If atheists or people of other faiths decorate Christmas trees and exchange gifts, it doesn't change fact that it's a Christian holiday.  When I attend a Hannukah dinner, or join an Eid celebration, it doesn't secularize their holiday.  How offensive to even suggest that for any religion!! [/quote]

What I find so amusing is that there are Christians who are upset that secular society has coopted Christmas to be a secular holiday, when Christians coopted a pagan holiday.  I think they are upset that the same thing they did to the pagans was done to them.

Historians have estimated that Jesus Christ was born in the springtime, much closer to Easter than to Christmas.  However, in the 4th century, Christianity was struggling to become significant and they realized that they did not have major holidays that drew followers.  So they moved the celebration of Christ to December 25th to be close to the Winter Solstice and on the date of the Saturnalia to directly conflict with pagan holidays that were extremely popular.  Then they coopted winter solstice traditions and symbols (evergreens, holly, wreaths, carolling, candles, wassail, gift giving, Santa Claus, stockings, tree decorations) to make the holiday more festive and easier to celebrate and appreciate.  By coopted symbols that people were already familiar with, they made it easier to convert from celebrating Saturnalia and the winter solstice to celebrating the Christian holiday of Christmas.

Now, centuries later, the Christian holiday has largely become a secular holiday with the majority of people not celebrating any of the religious themes for the holidays.  Now, Santa Claus, elves, snowmen (especially Frosty), reindeer (especially Rudolf) and snowflakes, plus all of those pagan symbols are as common or more common in Christmas celebrations and decorations than crosses, mangers, stars, angels, and Jesus.

Christmas was never a Christian holiday.  It was a coopted pagan holiday.  Christians converted it to a Christian religious holiday and now they are upset that it's been taken back essentially by the pagans or at least the secular non-religious majority.[/quote]

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