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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I cannot understand why people who are otherwise very smart and logical people believe in god. The idea of a god has never made sense to me, even as people in my family taught me about god and religion. I exclude the religious nut jobs from this question and want to address Those who are educated and feel they have a good deal of common sense in other areas.  What makes you believe? Is there any LOGICAL reason behind your beliefs?  [/quote]

Maybe because those people smart and logical? I am educated (three degrees), speak 3 languages fluently and two at the basic conversational level. I can't see how any educated person can deny the very existence of God? Before you accept or reject the idea of God, read his word, the Bible. You can't reject Plato or Machiavelli without reading at least several of their works? Sometimes you have to re-read it to understand, right? Sometimes you even need to talk to the Philosophy professor to accept their position (or not to accept). Try the same approach with God. Educate yourself before you reject it (not what your family taught you about religion, because God has nothing to do with religion).  Read his word, and re-read it. Talk to people with degree in theology if you don't understand certain things or with pastor you trust. Maybe then it will make some sense for you. [/quote]

Sorry, but it's hard to believe an educated person's recommendation to believe in God is to read "his word, the Bible"   A lot of the bible is gruesome, a lot of it doesn't add up and all of it was written 2,000 thousand or so years ago.  Carefully reading the bible has made a lot of people atheists. [/quote]

I'm another person you've been arguing with, and I too am highly educated, including a graduate degree from one of the top three schools in the country. I, too, speak several languages fluently, although not quite as many as PP: I speak 2 languages fluently, one language near-fluently, and I have taken college-level courses in two additional languages.

I think some of the frustration with your posting style is the silliness of the arguments, which stems partly from ignorance about even the most basic tenets of Christianity. You also don't seem to know much about philosophy in general -- I'm the poster who quoted Berkeley at you, and you were unable to respond to it.

I have educated myself widely on my religion. I have read all of the New Testament, much of the Old, and many theologians including from the Jesus Seminar, and lots on the historical Jesus.

I still find Jesus' message of love, tolerance and peace compelling for all ages, including the 21st century when we're so interconnected and war is just a red button away. I don't find anything objectionable in the gospels about the treatment of minorities, women, or gays, except for a few passages in Paul and, of course, Paul was not Jesus. But most of all, the message to love your enemies is an extraordinarily powerful message, particularly today.[/quote]

sounds like you've been arguing with at least two  different people without realizing it.  I am very familiar with the tenets of Christianity and the Jesus seminar and studies of the Historical Jesus.  I understand how educated people could know all that and still have different takes on it.   I also understand how Jesus' message of love, etc, is compelling.  That doesn't make the Bible any less gruesome or dated or dubious and it certainly doesn't make Jesus divine or the son of god.   It suggests  that you have compartmentalized the parts of Christianity that appeal to you. [/quote]

You seem like one of those people that think all discussions should be similar to algebraic proofs.  You think you just have to find one counter example and *poof* you can just type QED and be done for ever.  But llfe is not that simple. The truth is, it is very difficult to to articulate a truth that is so complicated.  When we try, of course some of it comes out wrong.  But that doesn't mean that there is no truth there, and that because one part, or even many parts are wrong, that the essence is wrong.  You also seem to like to destroy the value that people are finding in religion, but offer them nothing in return.  You get joy out of your simplistic arguments that point out things that everybody knows is wrong, but that joy is sick.  Instead of destroying, do you have something to offer that is not childish?   Something that helps people make sense of this world?  Something that isn't as obviously stupid as the parts of religion that you insist on drawing attention to?  [/quote]

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