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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think you solve toxic masculinity by having men take ownership of some of the better human traits and teaching boys to have these. You solve it apparently through hardship where men don't have time to think about making women conform to their every desire and have to think about real issues. I think bad men like Hitler turn men away from toxic masculinity eventually when they can see real examples of people taxing violence to an extreme.[/quote]

My issue with this that it posits there’s some broad issue to be solved that’s inherent to men.  Thats hogwash.  There are bad people. Period.  There isn’t some pre-disposal for men to somehow have negative human traits that have to be programmed out.  Really?  It takes looking at someone like Hitler to get men to realize “Oh I shouldn’t be bad?”  It’s really not even worth engaging with such a rotten-to-the core, genuinely mentally sick point of view.    Also I’ve seen just as much women try to shape men to their “every desire”. Again, that falls into the category of “there’s bad people, period.”  These people are the exception and hardly the rule.

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This is where you and other PPs arguing against the idea that toxic masculinity exist are completely missing the boat.  The argument is not that men are inherently, biologically flawed. It's that the way our culture treats men and raises them is.  We all know wonderful men in our own lives (at least I do).  This is not saying all men are doomed to be toxic.  It's not saying all masculine qualities are toxic.  It's saying a particular brew of characteristics that can be enforced as masculine in the culture are bad for everyone, including the men (see example of men avoiding medical treatment to be tough etc).  Teaching men to sublimate emotions.  Teaching them that women are property to be used when they feel like it.

If you don't believe that there is still work to be done in how we raise men to view women, I will refer you to the rape trial that just concluded in France.  Many of those "everymen" raped that woman and were swearing up and down that they didn't believe it was rape, couldn't conceive of themselves as rapists etc.  And I'm sure most of them had people in there lives who would never have believed it until they saw those videos.  But there you go. So many of them.  Just everyday guys like the guys you know.  It's the culture.

When you deny it, you perpetuate it. 
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