Anonymous wrote:Toxic masculinity is at its worst with evangelicals where women are taught that the man is the boss of the household. Women are taught to be subservient.

Correct. Fun fact: American evangelicals are the only people in the history of the world among whom the man is the boss & women are subservient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toxic masculinity is at its worst with evangelicals where women are taught that the man is the boss of the household. Women are taught to be subservient.

This isn’t the way I would choose to live, but it’s not necessarily toxic. It many ways it can be freeing to have an established system of rules and norms in place.

My household has an established system of rules and norms in place. I also wear shoes and leave the kitchen.

Anonymous wrote:Toxic masculinity is at its worst with evangelicals where women are taught that the man is the boss of the household. Women are taught to be subservient.

This isn’t the way I would choose to live, but it’s not necessarily toxic. It many ways it can be freeing to have an established system of rules and norms in place.

Toxic masculinity is at its worst with evangelicals where women are taught that the man is the boss of the household. Women are taught to be subservient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.

As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.

With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.

Do better.

I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.

Don't be so ignorant. Our society treats men and women/ boys and girls differently from birth. This is not about toxic masculinity being innate. It's about changing the messages we send our boys in a way that benefits everyone, including them! Toxic masculinity is no good for boys either.

I cannot even with people like you with your heads so far up your butts.

Remind me to not ask you to be my arm candy when I attend an inaugural ball next month.

You wish. You'd never have a chance.

Seriously, playing hard to get is not a good look for someone of your age.

Maam...this is a Wendy's.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.

As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.

With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.

Do better.

I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.

Don't be so ignorant. Our society treats men and women/ boys and girls differently from birth. This is not about toxic masculinity being innate. It's about changing the messages we send our boys in a way that benefits everyone, including them! Toxic masculinity is no good for boys either.

I cannot even with people like you with your heads so far up your butts.

Remind me to not ask you to be my arm candy when I attend an inaugural ball next month.

You wish. You'd never have a chance.

Seriously, playing hard to get is not a good look for someone of your age.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.

As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.

With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.

Do better.

I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.

Don't be so ignorant. Our society treats men and women/ boys and girls differently from birth. This is not about toxic masculinity being innate. It's about changing the messages we send our boys in a way that benefits everyone, including them! Toxic masculinity is no good for boys either.

I cannot even with people like you with your heads so far up your butts.

Remind me to not ask you to be my arm candy when I attend an inaugural ball next month.

You wish. You'd never have a chance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.

As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.

With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.

Do better.

I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.

Don't be so ignorant. Our society treats men and women/ boys and girls differently from birth. This is not about toxic masculinity being innate. It's about changing the messages we send our boys in a way that benefits everyone, including them! Toxic masculinity is no good for boys either.

I cannot even with people like you with your heads so far up your butts.

Remind me to not ask you to be my arm candy when I attend an inaugural ball next month.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe that toxic masculinity is a real thing, what are your thoughts on how to address it? Besides raising boys better what can we do? How do you confront it when it presents itself in your life?

Trump is No. 1 in toxic masculinity and he is revered by white males who also want to grab women by their kitties, rape with their fingers, and suffer no consequences. Look at the billionaire class who treat their wives like $hit. I don't have an answer and I hope my sons will remember what they were taught and behave accordingly.

I feel like, if anything, J.D. Vance is more toxically masculine than trump.

Vance is not masculine though. He's a bona fide weird nerdy dolt, similar that weird deportation nazi Miller. If anything they all are compenasting for not being masculine enough

Hence, their toxic masculinity. Vance and Miller define it for me. Toxic masculinity is someone compensating for something and/or having been raised in an abusive household which teaches them that this is normal.

Abortion rights are an example of toxic masculinity

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe that toxic masculinity is a real thing, what are your thoughts on how to address it? Besides raising boys better what can we do? How do you confront it when it presents itself in your life?

Trump is No. 1 in toxic masculinity and he is revered by white males who also want to grab women by their kitties, rape with their fingers, and suffer no consequences. Look at the billionaire class who treat their wives like $hit. I don't have an answer and I hope my sons will remember what they were taught and behave accordingly.

I feel like, if anything, J.D. Vance is more toxically masculine than trump.

Vance is not masculine though. He's a bona fide weird nerdy dolt, similar that weird deportation nazi Miller. If anything they all are compenasting for not being masculine enough

Doesn’t he wear eye-liner like a woman?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe that toxic masculinity is a real thing, what are your thoughts on how to address it? Besides raising boys better what can we do? How do you confront it when it presents itself in your life?

Trump is No. 1 in toxic masculinity and he is revered by white males who also want to grab women by their kitties, rape with their fingers, and suffer no consequences. Look at the billionaire class who treat their wives like $hit. I don't have an answer and I hope my sons will remember what they were taught and behave accordingly.

I feel like, if anything, J.D. Vance is more toxically masculine than trump.

Vance is not masculine though. He's a bona fide weird nerdy dolt, similar that weird deportation nazi Miller. If anything they all are compenasting for not being masculine enough

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you solve toxic masculinity by having men take ownership of some of the better human traits and teaching boys to have these. You solve it apparently through hardship where men don't have time to think about making women conform to their every desire and have to think about real issues. I think bad men like Hitler turn men away from toxic masculinity eventually when they can see real examples of people taxing violence to an extreme.

My issue with this that it posits there’s some broad issue to be solved that’s inherent to men. Thats hogwash. There are bad people. Period. There isn’t some pre-disposal for men to somehow have negative human traits that have to be programmed out. Really? It takes looking at someone like Hitler to get men to realize “Oh I shouldn’t be bad?” It’s really not even worth engaging with such a rotten-to-the core, genuinely mentally sick point of view. Also I’ve seen just as much women try to shape men to their “every desire”. Again, that falls into the category of “there’s bad people, period.” These people are the exception and hardly the rule.

This is where you and other PPs arguing against the idea that toxic masculinity exist are completely missing the boat. The argument is not that men are inherently, biologically flawed. It's that the way our culture treats men and raises them is. We all know wonderful men in our own lives (at least I do). This is not saying all men are doomed to be toxic. It's not saying all masculine qualities are toxic. It's saying a particular brew of characteristics that can be enforced as masculine in the culture are bad for everyone, including the men (see example of men avoiding medical treatment to be tough etc). Teaching men to sublimate emotions. Teaching them that women are property to be used when they feel like it.

If you don't believe that there is still work to be done in how we raise men to view women, I will refer you to the rape trial that just concluded in France. Many of those "everymen" raped that woman and were swearing up and down that they didn't believe it was rape, couldn't conceive of themselves as rapists etc. And I'm sure most of them had people in there lives who would never have believed it until they saw those videos. But there you go. So many of them. Just everyday guys like the guys you know. It's the culture.

When you deny it, you perpetuate it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This entire thread and the term “toxic masculinity” and people who believe it’s just this rampant plague are why donald trump won. People are tired of hyperbole.

Honestly, I think when a party gets fixated on identity politics men naturally get left out. Opressed women - who’s to blame? Opressed lgbtq+ - who’s to blame? Opressed African Americans - who’s to blame? Toxic masculinity, mansplaining, manspreading, rather be in the woods with a bear - it just goes on endlessly.

Scroll through the list on the Democrats “Who we serve” page:

https://democrats.org/who-we-are/who-we-serve/

Notice anyone left out of the “inclusive” party?

As a never trumper I was pretty heart broken this week to see him get elected but I get why men wouldn’t vote for a party who takes away their voice even when their heart is in the right place.

How is trying to bring others to the table taking away the voice of all the men already seated there.

You all fall for the GOP propaganda. It's been all white men all the time for centuries and now we are supposed to cry that they have to share the mic?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.

As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.

With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.

Do better.

I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.

Don't be so ignorant. Our society treats men and women/ boys and girls differently from birth. This is not about toxic masculinity being innate. It's about changing the messages we send our boys in a way that benefits everyone, including them! Toxic masculinity is no good for boys either.

I cannot even with people like you with your heads so far up your butts.