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[quote=pettifogger][quote=Anonymous][quote=pettifogger][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]There has been at least one poster claiming that a child who is able to take and pass Algebra I in 5th grade is rare or an outlier.

Aops is hugely popular. Loads of 5th graders taking algebra in 5th grade. If you talk to homeschooling circles (where aops is used as a curriculum by itself)  it’s by no means weird for above average kids to take algebra I in 5th.

Also there are whole countries where algebra is taught in 5th grade, right? This is a huge argument made on this forum.

So while it’s advanced for a student to study this on the side I don’t think it’s really a sign of needing radical acceleration. It’s merely a sign that the student is receiving outside tutoring.

Having worked with the aops curriculum I don’t think it stands as a complete substitution for an honors Algebra I course that is taught at the high school level. It’s different. The concepts are introduced through self discovery which can mean a student learns at a deeper level. But not always.  And I don’t think it is as rigorous. There is far less drilling and practice. Which isn’t needed if the student gets it the first time. But on the flip side a student can easily skip over problem sections and there isn’t much review.

Math competitions in elementary school are purely extra curricular. Doing well on the AMC 8 is only a sign that the student does well on that competition because they are accelerated or because they have studied the test. Not until
The AMC 12 is it really meaningful of anything more.

You see, a child who can fully understand Algebra I at 10 but have trouble with higher level and more abstract problems at 18. There’s no predicting this. [/quote]

A kid who takes the aops curriculum is not fully understanding Algebra 1 honors level math. They may understand concepts or pockets of material but not the breadth of material for the whole course. [/quote]

I have to highly disagree with this statement. The AoPS curriculum and problems are deeper than what is found in school algebra 1 classes. Additionally, kids are exposed to many other special topics that would be highly unlikely to be found in school (e.g Vietas formulas, Simon's favorite factoring trick, self similarity, as well as a separate in depth unit on counting and combinatorics). I don't believe any of these topics are seen in school.[/quote]

You are drinking the koolaid. Some tricks may or may not be covered in a high school Algebra I class. [b]But more is covered in the school class[/b]. It’s a class that meets every day for a year. Aops meets once a week.

It’s a great program. It’s the best program that is readily available if you ask me. But nothing compares to a real high school class. Your experience may differ. like with everything you get what you put into it. [/quote]

It's silly to argue that just because kids spend more time in math class at school than they do at AoPS, they end up covering more as a result. First of all, AoPS pacing moves much more quickly than in school. (It has to, since we only have about 60 hours of class time with kids during the year; 1hr 45min per week for 36 weeks). Second of all, the kids that come to AoPS don't go there because they need help with their regular math class. They go because they're ahead in their math class and want to go beyond and can handle the pace and rigor of the classes. The expectations are much higher. For example we expect them to do assigned reading in their textbook [i]ahead [/i]of class, if they don't do it they're less likely to be able to keep up during class. We expect them to spend up to 2 hours (or even more) on the weekly homework, if they want to be able to solve most or all the problems (some problems are very challenging applications of the concepts and definitely extend beyond what homework problems normally look like in school). So this comes to about 6 hours of weekly time spent on math (including our class time) and this is what we'd expect for kids to spend in order to master the material and do well on our exams. Again, notice that 2/3 of this time is spent [i]outside [/i]of class; that's where a lot of the learning comes from, from struggling to solve problems that are not initially obvious; (not from drilling the basics again and again, which is a large focus of school math classes).

I do agree with your last point, you get what you put into it. Every kid is different and many here are trying to argue very specifically about when and what age, etc. their kids will take a math class. Age is just one of many many factors determining success in a math class. Effort, motivation, encouragement, time available, etc. etc. are other factors and you cannot say that FCPS algebra 1 is better than AoPS, or vice-versa. The programs are completely different. Some kids would not handle AoPS (they may enjoy it, or get something out of going, and you can argue that exposure may be just fine and work for them, but they may not successfully master our material). Obviously those kids also need to learn it well, thus need to take the class in school. On the other hand, there definitely exist kids which master AoPS and consequently do not need the equivalent school class. There are also many kids (maybe most) who do both at the same time; this fits well since they learn the basics in school but at the same time work on more challenging problems at AoPS.[/quote]

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