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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I understand if you’re a blended family but if you’re an observant Jew [b]I find it a bit vulgar that you’d display what is quite obviously become a Christian symbol of the celebration of the birth of Jesus[/b]. Other than some vacuous feelings of envy, what is the real motivation to have a celebratory tree?  Why aren’t traditional Jewish celebratory symbols sufficient? Sometimes a tree isn’t simply a tree.[/quote]

How many times do you need this explained to you?

How much evidence do you need to see that this is not true?

Your incorrect, and likely intentionally dishonest assertion will be shown to be wrong again and again.

An evergreen tree in the house at the winter solstice is a traditionally pagan practice that predates the Christian celebration of the birth of Christ.  If anyone should "find it a bit vulgar", it is pagans who should be angry that you are trying to mis-appropriate their symbol for your purposes. [/quote]

Not the PP you are responding to but did you miss their use of the word "become"?

[/quote]

No, I did not miss that.

Things don't just "become".  History matters.  Ignorance of it does not constitute fact.[/quote]

You don't understand how customs evolve over time?  History matters but so does the present and it is undeniable that the evergreen tree has come to be a central symbol of the celebration of Christmas which in turn is a celebration of the birth of Jesus.  What are you motives in denying these facts?[/quote]

If we are talking about how things evolve over time, the evergreen tree has become the central figure in celebrating gift bringing by Santa.  As a class full of average elementary school kids and you would realize that.  Christmas is all about gift from Santa, not about the birth of Jesus.  So if you really think how things have evolved, I'm not sure why you are ignoring the present significance of Xmas.[/quote]

I don't know where you live but if you go to any church the christmas tree will be present and the services will focus on the true meaning of christmas, which is not the santa in the mall.  Again, why the intensity of you effort to turn christmas into some sort of non-demonitational holiday?  Is it simply to make you feel better about having a tree in your home? [/quote]

I'm the immediate pp.  I'm not the pp you think I am.  I'm not Jewish, I'm Christian and this is my observation of what Christmas has become.  I get that you want to protect your religion, I'm just saying I don't think having a Christmas tree is an indication that someone wants to be Christian or that it's a slow creep into Chrstianity.  It might be a slow creep into materialism, but given the gifts my Jewish friends give their kids for Hanukkah now, that's already happening.  A pp said the decorate the tree with Jewish symbols, that's a great way to keep your kids in your faith from feeling like outsiders during this time.  The mensch on a bench instead of the elf on the shelf also does this, and actually does it in a was that teaches about Jewish traditions.  [/quote]

It's not really about protecting a religion it was more an attempt to understand the motivation behind having a tree if one were jewish and why traditional jewish symbols simply weren't enough.  If somebody simply stated, as you did, that a tree helped to mitigate the feelings of being an outsider amongst so much overt christmas regalia I would have understood.  But what i heard were statements of fact that christmas trees have nothing to do with christmas, that christmas itself is a secular holiday, that christians appropriated the tree from pagans in the first place, etc.  There was a fair amount of evasion, deflection and frankly hostility that i found it curious.[/quote]

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