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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Let's say our recent wave of Latino immigrants (including illegals) got tons of money and weapons from a viable government like Spain.  These immigrants start to "settle" in places like Bethesda and Mclean.  They force you out of your homes, destroy your schools, block major roads so you cannot go to work, school, the hospital or to get groceries.  They make your daily life impossible and oppress you to the point of desperation.  Would you fight back?  or would you leave and let them take over-This is what the Israeli's are doing.  And before you say that historically the land belonged to the Israeli's/Jews-think that historically the USA belonged to Native and South Americans.  [/quote]

But do the immigrants in your hyopthetical have a duly-recognized carved-out nation-state "in places like Bethesda and McLean"?  I don't quite follow what you are saying.  The hypothetical behavior you raise sounds like a law enforcement matter.  That is correct about the US belonging to others, though. If people followed the logic of their positions (on either side) they would cede their property in Bethesda, McLean, or wherever to the rightful original owners and move back to wherever they are from.  Somehow I don't think that will be happening any time soon, though.[/quote]
Yes, if only Palestinians in 1948 had a viable law enforcement power to stop Israeli land grabs!  Israel has started to expand IMMEDIATELY from the borders of the nation-state carved out by the duly recognized powers. Look at the 1948 map and look at today's map. See how much was stolen.

Also, the "duly recognized nation-state" covers never said Israel had to expel half a million Palestinians to make that nation-state happen. [/quote]

Though many Arabs/Palestinians lived there, they were never a sovereign nation. It was run by the British after the Ottoman empire and for better or for worse, the British could do with it what they wanted and decided to create Israel. The Jews certainly werent going to turn that down.

The land was initially divided into 2 states: 23% jewish and 77% arab, but the arabs in 1948 did not want the Jews to have any state, so they attacked and (against all odds), the Jews won and drew their borders (as all countries do after winning a war started against them.

While Arabs may have lived there before 1948, they were never sovereign over the land.  [/quote]
The rules of modern warfare exclude the possibility of acquiring land by military conflict, just like they exclude attacking civilians (but that never applied to Israel, did it).  Was Israel attacked by half a million Palestinians it expelled from the lands it wanted to have? Israel didn't just draw new borders, although that alone was bad enough. It also negated all property rights of those who lived in the lands they acquired by warfare. So first, you get thrown out of your house.  And then the people who did it pass the law that says your house isn't yours anymore.  Very civilized!

Israel recognizes property claims pre-1948 from Jews but not from Arabs. Look up the absentee owner laws. [/quote]

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