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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Sorry, but this last post is nonsense.  The statement that skeptics do not believe in God because there is no proof is neither arrogant nor humble.  It just logically is.

I'm sorry, but your last sentence is begging the question:  "skeptics do not believe in God because there is no proof.  It just logically is.". You assume your conclusion.

"Objective" does not mean "impersonal.". It is not an attitude--you are right.

You are equating belief  and feelings to knowledge.[/quote]

Not at all.  But first, can you define a skeptic (of objective truth regarding God and right and wrong) in a way that satisfies you without begging the question?[/quote]

I am not assuming my own conclusion.  You are free to provide proof of God's existence.  If you do, the conclusion cannot be begged.[/quote]

PP, I am sorry about the brevity of my last post.  I tried texting while elliptical-ing, and my experiment failed ;)

Presenting all of the arguments for the existence of God in this forum is pretty much impossible, and my little mind is not the best one to present them.  A book on my nightstand offers 20 arguments, beginning with Aquinas' five ways, and including some that claim only strong probability, not demonstrative certainty.  I will defer to greater minds.

But I have a confession to make.  I started this thread because I have been struggling with doubt.  And so I wanted to go back to the beginning.  And for me, that starts with one question:  is it wrong to rip the hearts out of living babies?  Is anything actually wrong?

God has filled the earth with evidence of His existence, but not His direct presence.  (Hence, the PPs' request that God just open up the skies and give His morning report).  His existence is reasonable, but not obvious.  That ambiguity is the space for our freedom.  There is a difference between proving a preposition and accepting a preposition.  I might be able to prove God exists, and that there is objective right and wrong, beyond a reasonable doubt.  But you could still choose to reject those prepositions.

To fall back on C.S. Lewis (sorry if that annoys anyone):

"The Irresistable and the Indisputable are the two weapons which the very nature of [God's] scheme forbids Him to use.  Merely to override a human will (as His presence in any but the faintest and most mitigated degree would certainly do) would be for Him useless.  He cannot ravish.  He can only woo."[/quote]

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