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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Covid vaccination.  I've had every shot they recommend, 6 to date and I was very down on people who refused to get the shot in that first year.  I wasn't sympathetic to the medical workers and others who got fired for their refusal.  Now I am very sympathetic and respect anyone's choice.  I still think they are wrong but in the beginning, we were told the shot will keep you from getting the virus and end Covid just as we were able to wipe out polio and so many other diseases with vaccination.  I've had Covid twice now and we now know it doesn't work at all to prevent it, but probably makes the symptoms less severe if you do come down with Covid.  The many people in my life who never got the shot don't seem to prove that out.  Most of them have never had Covid, or maybe only once with symptoms no worse than mine.  So yes, I've completely changed my mind about other people's personal choices where at first I blamed them for it not going away.[/quote]

Your opinion of how well something prevents death or serious illness doesn't make vaccination more or less of a personal choice. Vaccinations aren't a personal choice, it's part of living in society. Grow up.[/quote]

I changed my mind on vaccines in large part because of attitudes like this. I simply don’t believe that anybody owes anything to “society” just because they happened to be born in a specific place.  To be clear, I want everyone to safely and voluntarily participate in vaccines. But you can’t push that on to someone.

I also changed my mind on military service. Went from my experience leading me to believe everyone should serve because of the tremendous benefits (mandatory conscription) to now thinking the draft should be abolished. If the country cannot raise a volunteer military force during time of war then the people are telling you the country is not worth fighting for. [/quote]

So you also are against measles vaccines? Or just the highly politicized vaccines?

And you do owe society - if you want to live with us and reap the benefits, economically, socially, emotionally, you need to agree to the basic health standards. Are you going to stop using public sewer systems or a zoning approved septic system because you think you don’t owe society a cholera free world? Cmon[/quote]

I am against all vaccine mandates.   To be clear, I want full, voluntary vaccination.  But society shouldn’t allocate risk via mandate on the theory that it will benefit the majority at the cost of an extremely small minority.

And nobody owes society their body by virtue of simply being born somewhere. [/quote]

We accept far more onerous mandates for far less benefit all the time. You’re espousing a view point that turns back progress 100 years. It’s so sad and I’m so sorry people have led you so far astray. [/quote]

Not that involve one’s body and personal autonomy.   In what way have I been led astray?[/quote]

DP but I think the amount of risk we’ve been able to eliminate from modern life is a luxury that people don’t appreciate because it’s all they know.

You think of vax mandates in the context of covid (which is somewhat infectious and of unclear danger)  and think the balance should be in favor personal autonomy and that’s a plausible position.

But those mandates were designed for much more dangerous and infectious diseases like measles and polio, where universal vax is really necessary to avoid epidemics.  Measles is crazy infectious and the idea that someone has the right to endanger the entire community because RFK jr told them nonsense is jusf terrible.

If my kid died in a measles epidemic because you decided your bodily autonomy was too important for a measles vax, but you still went out in public I would do whatever I could to make your life as miserable as mine would be. [/quote]

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