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College and University Discussion
Reply to "Is Johns Hopkins still desirable?"
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.[/quote] Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.[/quote] Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke :wink: . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly. [/quote] Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.[/quote] +1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.[/quote] It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student![/quote] I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.[/quote] Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.[/quote] There's no such thing as a top english or political science major. [/quote] A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.[/quote] Sure, but that doesn't make them top students. English is a joke major today. Political Science was always a joke major. [quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.[/quote] Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.[/quote] Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke :wink: . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly. [/quote] Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.[/quote] +1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.[/quote] It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student![/quote] I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.[/quote] Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.[/quote] There's no such thing as a top english or political science major. [/quote] A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.[/quote] Let's be real, if a kid is an activist but conservative I bet you consider them a dolt...be honest.[/quote] Both conservative and liberal activists at universities are dolts.[/quote]
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