Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Wow, I did not realize Dartmouth placed so well with top employers.

Seriously?

Dartmouth is literally the most bro t10/t15

It’s like penn minus the gunner Long Island, New Jersey, Miami crowd

This. My cousin’s kid went to Dartmouth and is now on Wall Street. Investment banks want bros, bonus points if you played a sport in college.

Athletics at top schools is a plus in consulting too. Know a Harvard laxer, Swarthmore laxer, and Yale rower in the MBB world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Wow, I did not realize Dartmouth placed so well with top employers.

Seriously?

Dartmouth is literally the most bro t10/t15

It’s like penn minus the gunner Long Island, New Jersey, Miami crowd

This. My cousin’s kid went to Dartmouth and is now on Wall Street. Investment banks want bros, bonus points if you played a sport in college.

Athletics at top schools is a plus in consulting too. Know a Harvard laxer, Swarthmore laxer, and Yale rower in the MBB world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Wow, I did not realize Dartmouth placed so well with top employers.

Seriously?

Dartmouth is literally the most bro t10/t15

It’s like penn minus the gunner Long Island, New Jersey, Miami crowd

This. My cousin’s kid went to Dartmouth and is now on Wall Street. Investment banks want bros, bonus points if you played a sport in college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chicago was just rated the best big city in the country by Conde Nast for six years in a row, which is an unprecedented record. The idea that the city is a dump is so far from reality, it's bizarre. Both the two main Chicago schools, UChicago and Northwestern, benefit greatly from having one of the world's most interesting cities right on their doorstep. It's clean, beautiful, architecturally significant, diverse, and opens up loads of job/economic opportunities.

with a terrible climate

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Wow, I did not realize Dartmouth placed so well with top employers.

Seriously?

Dartmouth is literally the most bro t10/t15

It’s like penn minus the gunner Long Island, New Jersey, Miami crowd

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

No it’s ranked correctly

Absolutely elite tier academics

Terrible social life and sub par location

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a good school but it's not known to be exactly fun or interesting for undergrad, unless you're extremely into pre-med and want to do medical research as an undergrad. It's also a difficult school. It's very similar to UChicago, and has many of the same causes for lack of desirability that UChicago does. Let's put it this way: would your kids rather be stuck in Baltimore in a library 24/7, or would they rather be hanging out in Cambridge, going to a Duke basketball game, or living next to Silicon Valley at Stanford?

This is a bit of an overstatement. I am a UChicago alum from the 90's, and Hyde Park (Chicago) is not as bad as the area of Baltimore where Johns Hopkins is located. I may be a slight bit biased, but I do think that they are different. We live in Howard County now. Our DD (high school senior) is opposed to even considering UChicago, which is bizarre to me, since she has not even seen the campus and does not want to visit. I think she would be surprised to see how nice UChicago is, and right on Lake Michigan. (Yes, I know that there is crime, but Chicago is not as bad as Baltimore.)

Anonymous wrote:Chicago was just rated the best big city in the country by Conde Nast for six years in a row, which is an unprecedented record. The idea that the city is a dump is so far from reality, it's bizarre. Both the two main Chicago schools, UChicago and Northwestern, benefit greatly from having one of the world's most interesting cities right on their doorstep. It's clean, beautiful, architecturally significant, diverse, and opens up loads of job/economic opportunities.

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

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Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.

Let's be real, if a kid is an activist but conservative I bet you consider them a dolt...be honest.

Not true, there are plenty of smart conservatives that deserve to get into top schools as well. They just aren't as likely to be as Yale because Yale is super liberal

That didn't take long to trickle into the conservative talking points. Well done at reading your script.

Anonymous wrote:It's a good school but it's not known to be exactly fun or interesting for undergrad, unless you're extremely into pre-med and want to do medical research as an undergrad. It's also a difficult school. It's very similar to UChicago, and has many of the same causes for lack of desirability that UChicago does. Let's put it this way: would your kids rather be stuck in Baltimore in a library 24/7, or would they rather be hanging out in Cambridge, going to a Duke basketball game, or living next to Silicon Valley at Stanford?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.

Let's be real, if a kid is an activist but conservative I bet you consider them a dolt...be honest.

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Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Wow, I did not realize Dartmouth placed so well with top employers.

That's pretty much all that Dartmouth has going for it.