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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Well if they're like my mom (I'm a woman), everything has to revolve around her, and she tries to turn any event - someone else's wedding, or funeral - into her show. Doesn't know how to listen to someone else's troubles without trying to "win" it with her own story, interrupts, doesn't listen, only talks about herself. As a child, I was supposed to be her accessory and give her bragging rights, but couldn't ever complain about her. If I did complain, it turned into a vicious vitriolic attack against my whole life. For example, I was told I was a bad baby. My mother is the "church lady" and has been a Sunday School teacher for decades.

Narcissists can be men or women.[/quote]

That sounds self centered or too talkative or anxious.

Narcs are way more calculating and manipulative, and in a sweet way, then you don’t know what hit you. Then they gaslight you and walk off. The hidden agendas. Over and over [/quote]
Question: do they know that they're calculating and manipulative or are these behaviors a kind of defense mechanism due to their inner deficits? I can see both possibilities. I am never sure how much they know what they're doing and how much is unconscious behavior. Or are there different types/spectrums of behavior?[/quote]

I’ve never figured this out for men or women. I’d like to think it is compulsive/ defense mechanism and not conscious but…….[/quote]

Me too but how they do reconcile it when caught in a lie and yet still won’t admit it. It’s bizarre. [/quote]

I think the level of consciousness can vary. The manipulative behavior is not thought of in those terms in their own mind. They might feel they're "just calling a spade a spade" or "being honest. " My sister for example when she tries to guilt me about an issue that's not her business ("you should do this" and I say basically "stay in your own lane" (none of your business)she will say, "I'll speak my mind, how dare you tell me otherwise?" She's offended in other words, she does not comprehend that something has nothing to do with her and she's stirring a pot and trying to influence and manipulate around something that has nothing to do with her but she feels ENTITLED to chime in. Entitlement is another narc defense, which is why socially they make big messes. The denying it when confronted....that's likely more conscious and an effort to save face. [/quote]

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